VisionFromFeeling - General discussion thread

[Uncayimmy]

Furthermore to be a Star Person involves characteristics and life experiences that not everyone shares. But I will not discuss those as it would agitate you even more. Just leave it be.

Actually, that's where you're wrong. Looking over that test you posted, there are plenty of things he cites that are common experiences. He just puts a different spin on them. He, like all the Star People, is just spinning tales from his imagination.

It was a study not a test, designed by me to try out various test conditions. Just like when I study for a test at college, I try out various problem solving methods and some fail yet it is the test that matters not the study.

Once again, your "study" was inadequate to establish an ability. However, it was sufficient to demonstrate a lack of ability. Had you scored significantly better than the three controls, we would still have eliminate other known effects. But the fact is two controls scored better than you. Thus, there is nothing to explain, study, or test.

Ahem. I do not claim that I could heal. The persons whom I have healed think that I have healed them. And this is why things are getting pretty interesting now.

You are lying. You told me flat out, "I did it!" Furthermore, in the past you told us that you never revealed to the person that you "healed" them, so in those cased only YOU think you healed them.

 

[wardenclyffe]

To be a Star Person is not a mental problem. We just relate to outer space and the other related topics on a very personal and identity level. I do admit that it could be a cultural artifact for children who grow up exposed to space and such in the media since we haven't really seen this in our historical past.

If it's possible that the concept of Star People is a cultural artifact, that raises two questions.

One, does that mean that all the memories and facts and figures about Arcturus are also cultural artifacts? Where does all that information come from. To feel like a Star Person is one thing (who doesn't sometimes feel alien and out of place?), but to come up with alternate DNA and specific stars of origin and special powers is something else entirely. That's more than a cultural artifact.

Two, since it's a possible cultural artifact, doesn't it make much more sense that it IS a cultural artifact? There's all sorts of evidence that suggests it is a cultural artifact and I know of no evidence that suggests that it's anything else.

I don't even know if "cultural artifact" would be the correct term, but for the sake of playing along, let's use it.

Ward

 

[Miss_Kitt]

Wow. Just...wow.

Now she's Healing the Suffering. And she has affadavits! And she's soliciting 'customers' by joining a migraine Meet-up group...

UncaYimmy, I thought you were jumping the gun with "Stop VfF" but now I think you're just a bit more experienced at spotting danger signals than I am. Thanks for the heads-up on this.

MK

 

[Uncayimmy]

The local Migraine Sufferers Meetup group was joined by Anita, and she posted a public request to attempt to heal them. However, their site says this:

"Please, no practitioners or distributors who do not personally live with chronic pain. This group is for people who have migraines or other chronic pain conditions."

Anita actually pointed this out to me privately, so she's aware of their request that people like her should not join. I wonder what her justification will be? She's really quite pushy that way.

I said very early on that Anita should consider the possibility that people are lying to her when they tell her about her alleged success. As we have clearly seen, she is awfully pushy and very persistent. She consistently repeats the same things over and over and over, which has been pointed out numerous times. How many times has she told us that she "really did" detect that Dr. Carslon was missing a kidney? Even in this migraine story she is essentially repeating herself.

Another angle on this healing claim is that the guy is just humoring her to get her to shut up. I don't say that to be rude. It's a real possibility.

 

[dlorde]

Another angle on this healing claim is that the guy is just humoring her to get her to shut up. I don't say that to be rude. It's a real possibility.

He may well have felt better and even experienced fewer or less severe migraines for a while after her 'intervention'. The simple fact of someone paying sympathetic attention and trying to help can have quite marked effects - something CAM practitioners take advantage of. In this case, there is no way to tell, especially as (thankfully) he continued with his medication and exercise.

 

[desertgal]

He may well have felt better and even experienced fewer or less severe migraines for a while after her 'intervention'. The simple fact of someone paying sympathetic attention and trying to help can have quite marked effects - something CAM practitioners take advantage of. In this case, there is no way to tell, especially as (thankfully) he continued with his medication and exercise.

I thought of this, as well. Granted, if this man does exist (and I have my doubts), I'm sure his family is sympathetic...but even the best of families become inured over time.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Star People

If it's possible that the concept of Star People is a cultural artifact, that raises two questions.

One, does that mean that all the memories and facts and figures about Arcturus are also cultural artifacts? Where does all that information come from. To feel like a Star Person is one thing (who doesn't sometimes feel alien and out of place?), but to come up with alternate DNA and specific stars of origin and special powers is something else entirely. That's more than a cultural artifact.

Two, since it's a possible cultural artifact, doesn't it make much more sense that it IS a cultural artifact? There's all sorts of evidence that suggests it is a cultural artifact and I know of no evidence that suggests that it's anything else.

This is a subject that is very personal and private to me, we are discussing the very fabric of my identity and I am not so sure I want to submit that to the JREF Forum Skeptics chopping block. As a Star Person, I relate to most of the emotions and conflicts that transgender people experience, as, in a sense, it is being a person that is not the same as what the body is. There are many parallels. One does not agree that the face and body is what one really looks like as a person, and one will want to make alterations to the body in order to look more on the outside as one does on the inside. Growing up one is told who they are, that is based on what others see when they look at you, and what they want to see, yet much of it strongly contradicts with who you are and you oppose it. The most classic aspect of this is that all my life I have insisted that I was an old person, I did not have a number for this but I used to say that I was 300 years old or 400 years old. I still feel that way, but I do not say it. I still can not relate to younger persons or persons my age, and all of my friends are much older than me. I am 26 and my boyfriend is 69, and "there is no age difference".

I have many times in my life wished that I wasn't this way, but it's the person I am and it is non-detachable. I can not be replaced by being someone else. There is so much more to this story but I hesitate to bring out the most intimate and precious aspects of my life here to be handled in the way that most of the topics introduced here are.

The "story" that goes with being a Star Person does not to me involve having any different DNA. The thought is that it involves the incarnation of a person from another world, but please let's not talk about that. Just accept that I am what you call a Star Person, and it is not a mental illness, it is me. And there have been things that suggest evidence that this is more than the artifact of a human mind.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Paranormal Test Up Next

Dear Skeptics, our long wait is over and I am ready to take an official paranormal test of my claim of medical perceptions. The test will be based on detection of which of persons is missing a kidney. The results of this test will be conclusive as to whether I have an extrasensory perception or whether the medical perceptions are subjective to me and something similar to synesthesia.

The study of my paranormal claim is over and I have decided that I could not have come across a better suitable ailment to include in a test than the missing kidney. It is unambiguous, a person either has it or does not, the condition will not vary with time and does not occur to different extents among those who have it. It will occur in the same predictable region of the body and involves a large sized organ, and it should have no externally detectable clues.

With what I call my "vision from feeling", I will attempt to correctly detect which of persons are missing a kidney to an extent that statistically exceeds the accuracy that could have been acchieved by guessing. There are still some minor details to be resolved regarding the test procedure, but other than that we are pretty much at the stage of proceeding with having the test.

www.visionfromfeeling.com/paranormaltest.html
www.visionfromfeeling.com/testprotocol.html

 

[Skeptical Greg]

The test will be based on detection of which of persons is missing a kidney.

I'm trying to imagine the usefulness of such an ability ...

Nothing comes to mind so far ...

 

[remirol]

I'm trying to imagine the usefulness of such an ability ...

Nothing comes to mind so far ...

To be fair, nothing about paranormal powers necessarily implies utility. Take the recent test of Connie, for example; finding a card in an envelope is far from useful.

 

[Empress]

Dear Skeptics, our long wait is over and I am ready to take an official paranormal test of my claim of medical perceptions.

*snippity*

With what I call my "vision from feeling", I will attempt to correctly detect which of persons are missing a kidney to an extent that statistically exceeds the accuracy that could have been acchieved by guessing. There are still some minor details to be resolved regarding the test procedure, but other than that we are pretty much at the stage of proceeding with having the test.

Hi, VfF.

I'm new to the discussion, but have been following to some degree.

On your website, you write this:

I have had only one experience where I know myself to have accurately identified the case of a missing kidney, but it was compelling enough to encourage me to have the test.

Are you referring to Dr Carlson (I belive is the name) where you didn't mention his missing kidney? Or is this another person with a missing kidney?

Thanks.

 

[Agatha]

Have you actually looked into how easy it will be to get sufficient volunteers that some of them have a missing kidney?

 

[Tapio]

Dear Skeptics, our long wait is over and I am ready to take an official paranormal test of my claim of medical perceptions.....There are still some minor details to be resolved regarding the test procedure, but other than that we are pretty much at the stage of proceeding with having the test.

Mahtavaa, onneksi olkoon (great, congratulations)!

Putting aside whatever has happened here at the Forums and in your personal life so far, and my feelings of your Visions of Feelings, I can say I'm genuinely happy for you to have come to this point. I'm very excited to see how all this ends, or begins again (depending on the conclusion of the test ). To me all in life is ends and beginnings of beginnings that end in ends and beginnings of beginnings of ends again...

Keep it real!

 

[Audible Click]

And how have I changed do you think?

I'm sure you must have read my post including the line about spiraling down into some sort of mental illness. IMO your claims have escalated over the months, from identifying chemicals to having perceptions dealing with food,seeing ghosts, talking to Benjamin Franklin,smelling inside the human body,claiming African Americans heal differently, being a Star Person, and surviving without water or food for a week, twice. Then you did a "study" with FACT and missed "seeing" Dr. Carlson's missing kidney during the "study". I know what your excuse was for that incident so you don't need to repeat it again. Now you claim to be able to heal. There are many more claims you've made that I'm not listing here but if you can't/won't see an escalating pattern of bizarre claims then so be it. I'm not here to debate you on that. I posted simply because I was concerned for your mental health and was trying to nudge you into reviewing your past posts and hoping you'd see the pattern I'm seeing. I now know this isn't going to happen so, for me, this subject is closed.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Have you actually looked into how easy it will be to get sufficient volunteers that some of them have a missing kidney?

This is an excellent point. It only takes a moment to think this through. The IIG is not going to put $50,000 on the line just for a lucky guess, especially when the other person has no risk. If we take the MDC as a guideline, how are they going to produce a test with a 1/1000 chance? Finding a person with a missing kidney is not hard. Getting 999 other volunteers to stand around while Anita "reads" them for 5 to 15 minutes is impractical. We're talking 80 to 250 hours for the test.

What we're seeing here is part of Anita's pattern. She's "known" about her alleged kidney detection ability for over six months. She's always claimed to be able detect missing organs and even missing teeth. She's only yacking about taking a test again because she saw Connie Sonne's test.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Letter sent to IIG

Here is the e-mail I sent to the IIG West today. I find the whole process of paranormal claims and paranormal investigations quite interesting and at times entertaining and I am sure others would agree. My paranormal investigation is an open documentary so I share it here:

Dear Jim Newman and the IIG,

I have some good news for you. I have decided to suggest to you that we have a test based on the detection of which of persons is missing a kidney, and to have that as the only type of health information that is involved in the test. The studies I was working on to gain more experience with the medical perceptions and with checking for their accuracy is done, as I have realized that there is no better ailment that I could have come across in the study than that of the missing kidney. Regrettably, I have only had one single experience of detecting a missing kidney, but it took place under conditions that make it very compelling to me and will be the basis of my claim for this test that I will have with you.

The detection of a missing kidney should represent what my claim is, and I will have the results of this test be conclusive. If I fail, I have no extrasensory ability of perception of the inside of bodies, and there is no other form of health information that I could try with instead that could make it more likely that I pass. To me, the information will be found in the same region of the body in all persons, and involves a large sized organ and based on my claim it should have a distinct "vibrational signature" and be among the easiest health information to detect, if I do have the ability. The missing kidney is also very good for test purposes. It is unambiguous, a person either has it or does not. It does not vary with time, and does not occur to different extents in the different people that have it. It should come with no external clues, and may occur in a wide variety of people and age ranges.

The one case in which I claim to have detected that a person is missing a kidney, occurred with FACT Skeptics member Dr. Eric Carlson. He has allowed me to talk about the reading I had with him and to mention the fact that he is missing a left kidney. At a FACT meeting I attempted my claim with him and was trying out a version of the health questionnaire. As I was working through the list of ailments on the form, I noticed that there was something very unusual in him. I looked closer and noticed that I was perceiving (feeling and seeing) his right side kidney very clearly and that on the left side there was no similar feeling and felt like an empty space instead. I looked at Dr. Carlson and was surprised, there is nothing to suggest that he would be missing a kidney, I would have assumed that persons who are missing kidneys are older and with obvious health problems, and young, healthy kidney donors did not cross my mind. Missing kidney was not included on the questionnaire, yet I was about to write missing left kidney on it. I spent several minutes looking at Dr. Carlson and confirming with myself what I was perceiving, and I was absolutely certain. Yet I chose not to write it down, thinking that if I am wrong, which my logic was telling me that I must be, I would never hear the end of it. So I chose not to write it down, and I have no credit for having detected a missing kidney nor do I have any form of formal evidence. But this experience is very compelling to me and is the basis of this new and more specific paranormal claim.

If you require formal evidence of past success with this specific claim before we can go ahead and arrange a test, then I will see if I can arrange to have this test locally first before you spend any time or resources on the arrangements. Or if you strongly suggest, mainly due to traveling distance, I will see whether I can arrange to have this test here with the FACT Skeptics first.

I have a page where I will be posting updates regarding this test, at www.visionfromfeeling.com/paranormaltest.html
And this is the page where I post my draft of our test protocol, www.visionfromfeeling.com/testprotocol.html

I will submit another test protocol suggestion to you soon and then, if you wish to proceed with arranging for this paranormal test with me, we can begin another test protocol negotiation and this time there should be no complications.

Your Paranormal Claimant,
Anita Ikonen
www.visionfromfeeling.com

 

[desertgal]

This is a subject that is very personal and private to me, we are discussing the very fabric of my identity and I am not so sure I want to submit that to the JREF Forum Skeptics chopping block.

Yeah. As I recall, you introduced the topic apropos of nothing. I'm sure you did that in the hope that no one would pay attention to it.

 

[desertgal]

Yawn. Just bandying around yet another test protocol. Get back to us when the test has actually taken place.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

This is indeed true; she is, I fear, swept up by the rush attention provides. I don't know if you were ever "on stage", but applause creates a self-fueling monster. Some people can work around it; many don't. It's not hard to guess which side Anita falls on, now that she is getting "successes" under her belt.

I am actually a rather shy person especially if people give me applause. I am doing this investigation because everything I have said has been as honest as I can make it.

Anita: Since you have said you are now ready for a formal test, does this mean we can expect an application from you for the MDC? If you are going to continue with the test mentioned in the linked pages with the IIG, when can we expect you to contact them and indicate that you're ready to proceed? (I'm not familiar with the IIG, so I don't know their formalities and/or procedures.)

Before you can apply to take the MDC test you have to have had and passed a previous test and have credible people verify your claim and also media presence. In other words you have to have had a test before you can have the test. So I am beginning by having the test that I must have before applying to the MDC. I e-mailed the IIG today.
Alright I need to go work on designing a test protocol for this more specific claim that I can submit to the IIG. I will publish it here and I would love plenty of constructive criticism.

 

[Audible Click]

This is an excellent point. It only takes a moment to think this through. The IIG is not going to put $50,000 on the line just for a lucky guess, especially when the other person has no risk. If we take the MDC as a guideline, how are they going to produce a test with a 1/1000 chance? Finding a person with a missing kidney is not hard. Getting 999 other volunteers to stand around while Anita "reads" them for 5 to 15 minutes is impractical. We're talking 80 to 250 hours for the test.

What we're seeing here is part of Anita's pattern. She's "known" about her alleged kidney detection ability for over six months. She's always claimed to be able detect missing organs and even missing teeth. She's only yacking about taking a test again because she saw Connie Sonne's test.

Aside form the aforementioned problem, if she could detect a missing appendix or gall bladder the IFF would have a bigger pool of test subjects from which to choose.