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single-payer system ... singled out

Eskarina said:
And I'm sorry to say that the water quality in the UK England is dismal compared to Germany (public), at least for the parts in both countries that I'm familiar with. :drinkspit:
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There, fixed that for you.

In Scotland the water supply is (a) publicly owned (as far as I know) and (b) superb. Bottle the stuff, slap a label on it, and you can charge a fiver a pop. We practically invented rain, and we probably have about 40% of the total world supply of the stuff.

And some day, we'll hold you all to ransom.... [turns away, lovingly stroking white cat].

Rolfe.
 
A little anecdotal, but here is my experience with the Canadian System:

It was about 12 years ago, and I was planning a trip with my then-fiance (Now wife) from Toronto to Seattle. Well, while loading the car, I slipped, and twisted my ankle. My wife insisted I go to the hospital. And go we did. I walk in, they put me in a wheelchair to wait. It was about a 3-4 hour wait, I got my x-rays, where it was found I had actually fractured my ankle. A cast and a pair or crutches later, and I hobbled out.

Was it a long wait? For some, sure. 4 hours, but I certainly wasn't told to come back next week. All I did was show my Card, and it was all done.

No out of payment expenses, no co-pay, nothing. I didn't have to worry about going to the hospital that my insurance would cover.

It was a shock to realize that I needed insurance when I moved to the states. Now, the Canadian system isn't perfect, far from it, but everyone does have access. How such a system could be expanded to 300+ million people.. I'm not sure, however.
 
Just in ...

House Democrats unveil health care reform plan
http://us.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/14/house.health.care/index.html

Story Highlights

  • It offers government-funded health insurance option and taxes wealthy
  • Leaders say it meets Obama's requirements on health care reform
  • GOP, some fiscally conservative Democrats oppose components

    Specific provisions of the bill include:

    -- A Health Insurance Exchange providing individuals and small business with choices for coverage, including a government-funded public option.

    -- No more coverage exclusion for pre-existing conditions.

    -- Affordability credits for low- and moderate-income individuals and families, available to those with incomes up to 400 percent of the federal poverty level, or $43,000 for individuals and $88,000 for a family of four.

    -- Limits on annual out-of-pocket spending.

    -- Expanded Medicaid coverage to individuals and families with incomes at or below 133 percent of the federal poverty level.

    -- Required participation by individuals, with a penalty of 2.5 percent of adjusted gross income for non-compliance.

    -- Requirement that businesses with payrolls exceeding $250,000 provide their employees with health coverage or contribute up to 8 percent of their payroll on their behalf.

    -- A series of measures intended to reduce costs of Medicaid, Medicare and other existing systems.


    [Full article]
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Pardalis said:
It boggles the mind doesn't it? It's not like there isn't anything newsworthy in Germany these days.
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While I did answer Skeptic's message, you're not trying to derail the thread as well, are you?

As I said, it was "mindboggling" to learn that there is no UHC in the US. Since then I got attracted to any developements concerning the system. Why is that more unusual than "Hey, the US invented a new medicine to cure X. That's cool, from now on I will follow the news concerning this issue."?
 
Oliver said:
Why is that more unusual than "Hey, the US invented a new medicine to cure X. That's cool, from now on I will follow the news concerning this issue."?
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If Americans discover a new medicine, this would affect everyone in all countries, but whatever health care system they choose for themselves, it affects, you know, Americans, not the rest of us.
 
Pardalis said:
If Americans discover a new medicine, this would affect everyone in all countries, but whatever health care system they choose for themselves, it affects, you know, Americans, not the rest of us.
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You mean like the moonlanding only Americans at the time should have care about? :rolleyes:

Who are you to decide what I personally think is interesting and worthy to be interested in concerning the developement? Personally, I think all people should have the benefits of universal Healthcare, it would be rather ignorant to exclude the American system, would it not?
 
i also find it interesting to see. especially the ideologic laden debates here.
 
Pardalis said:
Yes, this is exactly what I meant... :rolleyes:
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Ah, the good ol' selective answers ...

Anyway:

Who are you to decide what I personally think is interesting and worthy to be interested in concerning the developement? Personally, I think all people should have the benefits of universal Healthcare, it would be rather ignorant to exclude the American system, would it not?
 
Pardalis said:
Your sudden empathy for Americans is very touching.
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As touching as your empathy for me personally? As you remember, you still owe me an apology. However, my personal opinion is that Obama is a great person and that I respect him even more for the fact that he tries to reform the expensive and corrupt health care system I formerly assumed is pretty much the same as in European countries.
 
Rika said:
I can't say I am at all happy with the current plan. Something about law of unintended consequences, etc. etc.
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doesnt bring every new system that with them, those unintended consequences?
 
Rika said:
I can't say I am at all happy with the current plan. Something about law of unintended consequences, etc. etc.
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Well, what points to you think have unintended consequences - and what would your proposal look like to avoid those consequences?
 
I'm rather sure anything that mandates insurance without clear ideas as to HOW it will force the private sector to go along is.. probably at issue. I'm not sure htough, as reading through the bill text is making me get headaches

(the bill text is here: http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf )

Secondly, I dunno. I'm pointing out there are a few unresovled strings by this bill.
 
Oliver said:
Well, what points to you think have unintended consequences - and what would your proposal look like to avoid those consequences?
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ETA: The most relieving point of the proposal is that people having pre-conditions will not be turned away. The only unintended consequence of that are insurers whining all day long about financial losses while trying to spin it into an argument against "Small Business blah blah".
 
Rika said:
I'm rather sure anything that mandates insurance without clear ideas as to HOW it will force the private sector to go along is.. probably at issue. I'm not sure htough, as reading through the bill text is making me get headaches

(the bill text is here: http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf )

Secondly, I dunno. I'm pointing out there are a few unresovled strings by this bill.
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Well, I don't think that the existing private insurers should have any say at all beyond the fact that people can keep their old insurances. Actully I think that the insurers caused all the unintended explosions in cost and coverage, therefore, keep them off the "reform-table" as much as possible since their intention isn't "We, the people" but "Me, the insurer".
 
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