Deeper than primes

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You really do not understand the word arbitrary do you?. If you are intending “0.0000…1” to represent an infinite number of zeros followed by a 1, then start writing those zeros and let us know when you actually get to your 1. So you really don’t understand the concept of infinity, do you?

The "...1" of “0.0000…1” represents exactly the non-local domain between 0.999...[base 10] and 1 that is not covered by the non-finite localities of 0.999...[base 10] .

Very simple.
 
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This is still a baseless assertion with no supporting evidence.

You are worng, ≠ is a prefect evidence.

Without it there is exactly one k-dim element on the n-dim element.

Please do your best in order to show that this is not exactly the case, if you ignore ≠.

I chalange you about that.
 
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The "...1" of “0.0000…1” represents exactly the non-local domain between 0.999...[base 10] and 1 that is not covered by the non-finite localities of 0.999...[base 10]

I am well aware of what you think it represents, but you have yet to show a gap between 0.9999... (3 * 1/3) and 1 where you can stick it.
 
I am well aware of what you think it represents, but you have yet to show a gap between 0.9999... (3 * 1/3) and 1 where you can stick it.

You still miss it.

0.333...[base 10] < 1/3 by 0.000...1 / 3

0.999...[base 10] < 1/1 by 0.000...1 / 1

At the moment that you get non-locality, you immediately get it.

EDIT:

Please to not ask how the "...1" non-local atom of "0.000...1" expression can be divided by 3, because "/3" expression is a ratio (and not a division), in this case.
 
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You are worng, ≠ is a prefect evidence

And, yet, it's not.

If it were, you'd be able to identify even a single place on a line not covered by a point, and yet you cannot. Why is that?

If it were, you'd be able to identify even a single place on a plane not covered by some line or some point, and yet you cannot. Why is that?

....
 
And, yet, it's not.

If it were, you'd be able to identify even a single place on a line not covered by a point, and yet you cannot. Why is that?

If it were, you'd be able to identify even a single place on a plane not covered by some line or some point, and yet you cannot. Why is that?

....

Here it is (for example 1-dim element and 0-dim element):

1-dim is represented here by ___ and ≠

0-dim is represented by .

._______.

It does not matter what non-finite scale is used, as long as there is more than a one 0-dim element on the 1-dim element,
0-dimA ≠ 0-dimB (= ._______.) is an invariant fact.

If it were, you'd be able to identify even a single place on a line not covered by a point, and yet you cannot. Why is that?

When it is convenient jsfisher is chanced into a constructivist mathematician that rejects the non-finite and insists about a constructive evidence.

But then it is really trivial to show that 0-dimA ≠ 0-dimB (= ._______.) is an invariant fact.
 
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You still miss it.

0.333...[base 10] < 1/3 by 0.000...1 / 3

0.999...[base 10] < 1/1 by 0.000...1 / 1

At the moment that you get non-locality, you immediately get it.

Nope I didn’t miss it, I always expected that you would just assert your own gap to sick it in.

EDIT:

Please to not ask how the "...1" non-local atom of "0.000...1" expression can be divided by 3, because "/3" expression is a ratio (and not a division), in this case.

Why should I ask when you have already asserted it as a division or more specifically a fraction? For your edification 1:3 is a ratio which simply compares the terms 1 and 3 relative to each other. 1/3 is specifically a fraction or division signifying a part or some parts of a whole. The numerator is the number of equal parts that make up that whole (in this case 3) and the denominator (1 in this case) tells us that we are dealing with just 1 equal part of that whole which would require 2 other equal parts to make that whole. You can invent your own math and stick your “"0.000...1"” expression 1 in whatever gap you choose to assert, but don’t presume that you are basing it on anything mathematical until you first understand math and the requisite notations.
 
Here it is (for example 1-dim element and 0-dim element):

1-dim is represented here by ___ and ≠

0-dim is represented by .

._______.

It does not matter what non-finite scale is used, as long as there is more than a one 0-dim element on the 1-dim element,
0-dimA ≠ 0-dimB (= ._______.) is an invariant fact.

Proof by typewriter art? Not very convincing. Not much better than graphical gibberish. Is this the best you got?

When it is convenient jsfisher is chanced into a constructivist mathematician that rejects the non-finite and insists about a constructive evidence.

Where, exactly, did I reject the infinite. I suspect this is just another of your baseless assertions.

But then it is really trivial to show that 0-dimA ≠ 0-dimB (= ._______.) is an invariant fact.

I suppose that means something very significant to you, and I am glad for you, but it isn't Mathematics, and it doesn't show anything, trivial or otherwise.

All you need do is identify just a single location on the real line where there is no point. Is that hard for you? You did claim zero-dimensional points couldn't cover a one-dimensional line, didn't you? If true, then there must be at least one uncovered place on the line. Show us one.
 
Let's see, where was I?
Oh yes. Out at sea and not quite ready for the jazz swing.

But I did have a "direct perception:"
Waves!
They come in peaks and troughs.
Without the peaks and troughs there are no waves.
And without troughs there are no peaks, and without peaks, no troughs.

This is analogy for our selves and others we regard and relate to as selves.
We have a Subject aspect and an Object aspect.

I may address you, Doron with full attention and openness. Then you are The One, your subjectivity in primary focus. The objectivity is there, in that you are still an individual to me.
In such encounter I'm not placing you in a spatial-temporal location.
Instead you illuminate all my locations.

Or I may talk about you to others, in which you are regarded as primarily an object among others. I locate you somewhere and somewhen in my universe of objects. But even here, unless I’m an outright sociopath, I regard you as a person, rather than an object of my use.

This is the locality and non-locality of our personal encounters.
We don't usually grant this kind of differentiation to inanimate objects.
But an open focus of attention on any feature of our perception can bring to it a numinous, transcendent, and even personal quality.
(In my shameful, "tree hugging" days, I'd find a personal encounter with trees I meditated upon, almost as if they had dyads.

Well, it's not practical to regard the ordinary objects around you as subjects.
But we do see a virtue in being in a humane relationship with our environment.

So here's part of what I gather your Organic Mathematics intends to grant.
Traditional Mathematics has the reputation of stripping subjective being from everything it calculates, from old growth forests to individual persons. And leaves us nothing but stats on a graph.

What if there were a way of math that included in the calculation the subjective aspect, so that we didn't dehumanize ourselves?

OK, OM doesn't seem to go that far. And perhaps that's not a burden of expectation to place upon it.
Its cognitive focus is on "Local/Non-Local Linkage" specifically manifested in "Redundancy/Uncertainty."

Nevertheless the intent of the linkage of Redundancy and Uncertainty does seem to approach the desired kind of regard.
Uncertainty means an element can be regarded as merely another particular of a class or type. One is not seen except as an instance of a race, religion, nationality, or economic class.
Redundancy means one is seen as The One.

So then the partitioning of Organic Numbers to some extent represents the Subjective/Objective potentials of a new kind of mathematical interaction and calculation with respect to others and our environment.

Right?

I know there's the organism Whole/Parts thing. I'll get to that later.

So here's the really big question:

If one uses the Organic Numbers to calculate, rather than the traditional serial methods (and I'm not at all clear yet on how that is done.),
Will he or she in the very act be cognizant of the others involved in the calculation as being more than just traditional mathematical objects?

I mean, say we have an Organic Number algorithm.
(Is there such a thing?)
When I calculate with it, will I of necessity be in a 'non-local" mind?

Or is it that algorithms and calculations are only after the mind has gone serial (Uncertainty), but still remembers that it first considered parallel (Redundancy)?
 
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<snip>

I mean, say we have an Organic Number algorithm.
(Is there such a thing?)
When I calculate with it, will I of necessity be in a 'non-local" mind?

Out of your mind might be more functionally descriptive.

Or is it that algorithms and calculations are only after the mind has gone serial (Uncertainty), but still remembers that it first considered parallel (Redundancy)?

Ah now here we get to the rub of it Apathia, as ones brain is network of serial and parallel links. However, serial does not denote uncertainty as we can have serial certainty and certainly have uncertainties in parallel. As parallel does not denote redundancy, although in some aspects it might tend to infer that as redundant paths, but those paths need not be redundant in any other way or in other words are in fact distinct paths and thus not necessarily functionally redundant.
 
The "...1" of “0.0000…1” represents exactly the non-local domain between 0.999...[base 10] and 1 that is not covered by the non-finite localities of 0.999...[base 10] .

Very simple.

There *is* no “0.0000…1” as 0.999... is infinitely repetent (don't know the english word for it, it means repeating pattern in Dutch Math)

We also never say 1 = 0.999... but lim(1) = 0.999...

Which is a far more concise way of talking about the fact that the pattern of 9's is infinitely repetent. There is no 1 'somewhere'.

The number will just approach 1 the longer the series gets.

By introducing your non-local domain, you are introducing, on purpose, a calculation error.
 
Oh just to add I found your post quite intuitive, Apathia, certainly nothing wrong with your direct perception that I can find. In fact you tentatively stress some of the points I was making on another thread we have both been engaged in. Specifically not limiting subjectivity to things other then what are generally considered objects. Indeed as you state, math can tend to be perceived as objectification in simply processing data. Yet that too is what we do in establishing our own subjective perspectives, process data. In a certain sense math does require that objectification in order to be effective, but it does not itself restrict one from being subjective about the processes involved. One of the best examples is the use of data from what most would subjectivity determine to be immoral experiments. Were I conducting a study on pain, I would have to analyze the data as objectively as possible. However that does not preclude me from having a subjective opinion about how that data was collected. Say perhaps from torture and refusing to participate or lend credence to an activity one finds highly objectionable. So yes, math does tend to objectify, that is fundamentally part of its function and effectiveness. However, that does not preclude one from adhering to their own subjectivity about how, where and when they choose to apply such objectifying tools. Unfortunately I do not see OM inherently making those circumstances any better, but simply detracting from the effectiveness of actual math. Education, compassion, empathy and tolerance are the only basis for such considerations and those are simply parts of our own subjective experiences.
 
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Proof by typewriter art?

Yes, exactly as "≠" , "0-dim" or "0-dimA ≠ 0-dimB" is a typewriter art.

jsfisher, have you heard about one of the most important demands of the mathematical science called abstraction or generalization, that one must have in order to be considered as a real mathematician, in the first place?

If some one understands notions only on the level of their notations, he definitely cannot be considered as a mathematician, no matter how many maneuvers he makes with some agreed collection of notations.

A simple check immediately shows who is the one between us that is based on notations instead of notions, in this case.
 
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Since following this thread I have watched the discussion swing from math to epistemology and back more times than I can remember and always the confusion between the two.
What is clear is that without a thoroughly thought out epistemology no OM, traditional math,TM or objective/subjective classification should be used to explain what knowledge is useful or not.
The recent posts of Apathia are the best attempts so far at attempting to relate a specific epistemology. The Man seems tempted, I wonder whether jsfisher,realpaladin, doron and moshe are ready to summarize their epistemology's?
 
Since following this thread I have watched the discussion swing from math to epistemology and back more times than I can remember and always the confusion between the two.
What is clear is that without a thoroughly thought out epistemology no OM, traditional math,TM or objective/subjective classification should be used to explain what knowledge is useful or not.
The recent posts of Apathia are the best attempts so far at attempting to relate a specific epistemology. The Man seems tempted, I wonder whether jsfisher,realpaladin, doron and moshe are ready to summarize their epistemology's?

Well, the thread has numerous statements on my part to that effect.

One is the quite recent reference to: http://www.librarything.com/work/1910492

But as I can see, you have not followed all links through yet :) By far.
 
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