"Neda". Watched it. Not cool.

[NWO Sentryman]

Are you going to sat, then, that Friedman and his gang of maggots just knew far enough ahead of time to develop a plan for the corpse of Chile's democracy?



What an absurd comment.

Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep decide what is for dinner.

Pinochet was trying to Preserve the Republic of Chile (not democracy of chile, Republic of chile). Allende was becoming more totalitarian by the day.

Another thing to consider about internal affairs, what abour Rwanda? It was their own affair, we would have been wrong to intervene. Ditto darfur.

nope, it makes sense. Replace friedman with bush, who had nothing to do with the attacks, and Pinochet with Al-Qaeda. Bush took advantage of the attacks, but was not behind them.

 

[DC]

sniped unusefull propaganda.

ETA: Socialism has rarely worked. We have Russia, Cambodia, china, ethiopia and the warsaw pact to prove it

they have to do what exactly with Socialism?

 

[DC]

Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep decide what is for dinner.

Pinochet was trying to Preserve the Republic of Chile (not democracy of chile, Republic of chile). Allende was becoming more totalitarian by the day.

Another thing to consider about internal affairs, what abour Rwanda? It was their own affair, we would have been wrong to intervene. Ditto darfur.

nope, it makes sense. Replace friedman with bush, who had nothing to do with the attacks, and Pinochet with Al-Qaeda. Bush took advantage of the attacks, but was not behind them.

hey just becuase you are against Democracy as soon the poeple start voting for things you dont like, doesnt give you a right to pose your will on other people.

its bejond me how a sane person could defend pinochet.

 

[leftysergeant]

Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep decide what is for dinner.

Okay, now I get it. You don't like it when people decide to run their countries according to their needs, rather than the desires of foreigners.

Pinochet was trying to Preserve the Republic of Chile (not democracy of chile, Republic of chile).

And it is okay to murder your countrymen by the thousands without trial if they elect a government that your foreign sponsors do not like.

Allende was becoming more totalitarian by the day.

Care to defend that by offering some examples of totalitarian measures he instituted?

And I have not heard anybody here suggesting that we should have murdered the leaders of either Rwanda or the Sudan and imposed a whackadoodle ecconomic system on those countries at the point of a gun.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Okay, now I get it. You don't like it when people decide to run their countries according to their needs, rather than the desires of foreigners.



And it is okay to murder your countrymen by the thousands without trial if they elect a government that your foreign sponsors do not like.



Care to defend that by offering some examples of totalitarian measures he instituted?

And I have not heard anybody here suggesting that we should have murdered the leaders of either Rwanda or the Sudan and imposed a whackadoodle ecconomic system on those countries at the point of a gun.

now you are just twisting my words. What i was talking about was mob rule.

Allende was totalitarian. http://www.socyberty.com/History/The-Lefts-Totalitarian-Martyrs-Salvador-Allende.425101

he also worshipped stalin, and was helping castro. And you also make it so that any arguments agaisnt allende means i support random foreign coups and mass murder. By that logic, i can say that you supported stalin against hitler, that makes you a stalinist. Hell that makes the entire world stalinist.

Where did i say i supported mass murder?

Where did i say i supported random coups? i have denounced suharto as a murdering scumbag as well as mobutu.

And dicator cheney: People's republic of China, Democratic Kampuchea, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Hiale Mengitsu of ethiopia. They were all socialist. AS well as that, add Hoxha, Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, Nicolae Ceaucescu, Adolf Hitler (National Socialist) and Fidel Castro.

Pinochet was a scumbag, but did not kill ANYWHERE near the toll of Suharto or Mobutu or Stalin or Hitler. Hell, even the shah of iran killed more

BTW, so someone being elected means they are allowed to do whatever they want such as mugabe or Hitler?

 

[DC]

now you are just twisting my words. What i was talking about was mob rule.

Allende was totalitarian. http://www.socyberty.com/History/The-Lefts-Totalitarian-Martyrs-Salvador-Allende.425101

he also worshipped stalin, and was helping castro. And you also make it so that any arguments agaisnt allende means i support random foreign coups and mass murder. By that logic, i can say that you supported stalin against hitler, that makes you a stalinist. Hell that makes the entire world stalinist.

Where did i say i supported mass murder?

Where did i say i supported random coups? i have denounced suharto as a murdering scumbag as well as mobutu.

And dicator cheney: People's republic of China, Democratic Kampuchea, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Hiale Mengitsu of ethiopia. They were all socialist. AS well as that, add Hoxha, Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, Nicolae Ceaucescu, Adolf Hitler (National Socialist) and Fidel Castro.

Pinochet was a scumbag, but did not kill ANYWHERE near the toll of Suharto or Mobutu or Stalin or Hitler. Hell, even the shah of iran killed more

BTW, so someone being elected means they are allowed to do whatever they want such as mugabe or Hitler?

what beside theyr name makes them socialistic?

 

[NWO Sentryman]

what beside theyr name makes them socialistic?

their ideology. Marxist leninism and its variants, National Socialism (BTW, the 25 points do indicate a socialistic platform, namely pensions, nationalisation, punishing profiteering)

As well as constant emphasis on the People. Volk. Narodya.

 

[leftysergeant]

Thius is a total derail. I only bring up Allende and a few other cases to point out that we have never made anything better by sticking our noses into another country's affairs. Iran will have top settle Iran's future. We have no right to squack about how the country has gone downhill since we overturned Mossadeq. Stay the hell out of it.

 

[portlandatheist]

The whole problem in the middle east is that we did not back Saddam enough right? As Regan's buddy and ally against Iran we needed to give them more weapons to make their war effective. Probably nukes.

non sequitur

 

[FarmallMTA]

The evidence does not support your conclusion.

Evidence, exhibit 1: Ayatollah Khomeini
Evidence, exhibit 2: http://www.mahalo.com/iran-adultery-stoning

The evidence clearly supports my conclusion. That is if you'll open your eyes, O Ye who Stand In Solidarity With the Women Of Iran (unless solidarity means having to support Democracy and opportunity and oppose dictators who hate America, in which case the women of Iran take a back seat to leftist America bashing). If I'm mistaken about this, lets see you say something complementary about how George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld include Iran on the short list of the axis of Evil.

The fact is, women never had it so good as under the Shah. The Iranian Revolution was promulgated by male crazies who hate women and wanted them subjugated. The Shah didn't want that for women. Reagan didn't. George W. Bush didn't. Carter, as evidenced by attitude and deed, didn't care about Iranian women. Clinton didn't and Obama doesn't. So who's side are you on, sugarjugs? Left wing and authoritarian women haters? ORRRRRRR.... conservatives who respect and protect and promote women's rights?

 

[Beerina]

No, I've seen many people die. She lost consciousness. It was an illusion she was looking at anything. Trust me. With that much blood pouring into your airway, nose, mouth, it is because you are bleeding profusely into your chest. No blood is going to your brain at that point.

Presumably it would have caused a cough reflex, which was not present?

 

[FireGarden]

So who's side are you on, sugarjugs?

Yeah, that's the way to show you respect women and care about treating them as equals.

 

[DC]

their ideology. Marxist leninism and its variants, National Socialism (BTW, the 25 points do indicate a socialistic platform, namely pensions, nationalisation, punishing profiteering)

As well as constant emphasis on the People. Volk. Narodya.

what is the diffrence between Leninism and Marxism?

 

[leftysergeant]

If I'm mistaken about this, lets see you say something complementary about how George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld include Iran on the short list of the axis of Evil.

The idiot just made things worse by acting like a schoolyard bully. TRhere was and maybe still is a pro-democracy movement in Iran, but threatening and bullying the mullahs did not help their cause. It actually strengthened the hand of the mullahs because they could now say that the dissidents were working for the Shrub.

The boy never did a thing right in his life.

We blew our right to any say in Iran after 1953. Any action we take now will just be seen as proof that we have not changed since then.

There is really nothing effective we can do there now other than to keep up the words of condemnation. There is no action that we can legally take to intervene.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

what is the diffrence between Leninism and Marxism?

Ideological. Leninism was a variant of marxism.

Lenin believed in Vanguard revolution, basically, an elite party which would overthrow the old system and bring the country on the road to socialism. But socialism nonetheless.

Marx belived in a very large party (Mensheviks were closer to marx than lenin), made up of a huge proletariat.

Different paths, same destination.

 

[DC]

Ideological. Leninism was a variant of marxism.

Lenin believed in Vanguard revolution, basically, an elite party which would overthrow the old system and bring the country on the road to socialism. But socialism nonetheless.

Marx belived in a very large party (Mensheviks were closer to marx than lenin), made up of a huge proletariat.

Different paths, same destination.

they are far more diffrent like you seem to belive.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

they are far more diffrent like you seem to belive.

No, they have key similarites:

Ten planks of communism:

Income tax

abolition of religion

centralisation of banking

transport under state control as well as communication

abolition of inheritances

abolition of private property

central planning of the economy

 

[DC]

No, they have key similarites:

Ten planks of communism:

Income tax

abolition of religion

centralisation of banking

transport under state control as well as communication

abolition of inheritances

abolition of private property

central planning of the economy

what????
income tax? income tax what???
Marx described a Progressive taxation, lenin went way further in that. for everyone the same income. (Party members are not everyone thats for sure)

Lenin based his theory on Marx's theory but "advanced" it. Marx would prolly roll over in his grave.

but more details would require a new thread.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

what????
income tax? income tax what???
Marx described a Progressive taxation, lenin went way further in that. for everyone the same income. (Party members are not everyone thats for sure)

Lenin based his theory on Marx's theory but "advanced" it. Marx would prolly roll over in his grave.

but more details would require a new thread.

Well, the communist party was what was left of the working class after WW1 and the RCW.

The bulk of russia's population was peasantry, so you could say that since marx did not clarly define the proletariat that it was up to future interpretation.

 

[dudalb]

Not to mention the courageous people of East Germany, Poland etc who stood up to their regimes in order to fight for their freedom are cheated out of the credit for their courage, in favor of some former third-rate actor shouting hollow slogans at the Berlin Wall.

The Lefties still Can't stand that Reagan is still a popular figure in the US,