any jews "right" to land anywhere in "palestine"

[The Fool]

I have started this thread to explore a claim by Marc39.

That claim is that any Jew....from anywhere... can go to anywhere in "Palestine" and live...as long as that land is not covered by "legal title". Non Jews cannot do this.

Marc39 please feel free to correct or expand on that if its not correct.

firstly...does the Jewish person gain any form of "legal title" to the land when they do this?

and.....Can you tell us what gives this "right"?

 

[Skeptic]

Why stop with Jews?

Do you think Blacks have a right to buy apartments where they want, or that there are certain areas in the world -- helpfully specified by yourself -- where they have no right to set foot, lest they disturb the demographic balance or cause hatered among the White natives?

Come to think of it, is there any ethnic group which you think does not have the right to live where it wants EXCEPT for those troublemaking Jews?

 

[The Fool]

Why stop with Jews?

Do you think Blacks have a right to buy apartments where they want, or that there are certain areas in the world -- helpfully specified by yourself -- where they have no right to set foot, lest they disturb the demographic balance or cause hatered among the White natives?

I think black have (or should have) the same rights as anyone else. If you don't mind I'm just trying to determine what rights Marc39 claims Jews have (that are not the the same as anyone else).

ok?

 

[Cain]

Of course Jews have the right to any land anywhere in "Palestine." God said so.

 

[sophia8]

The OP is talking about the Jewish Law of Return
That article gives a pretty good summary.

 

[Oliver]

If were talking about a "godgiven right" concerning the land of palestine, any argument is false to start with. However, given the fact that Israel is established already, there is no way to change this fact and thus I support peace in Israel and the surrounding countries as long the Israeli's are interested in making peace without making any more claims - which does include the westbank settlements and the declaration that Judaism is more important than Islam concerning Jerusalem etc...

 

[Oliver]

Also, some people in here arguing against the OP may be biased whenever they try to add off-topic arguments to the Fool's question.

 

[Skeptic]

Israel considers itself the Jewish state. So Jews (with rare exceptions, e.g., convicted criminals, etc.) have a right to claim citizenship, much like the USA gives every American citizen the right to live anywhere in the USA.

It pisses some people off that there is such a thing as a Jewish state. Ah well. So what else is new?

 

[The Fool]

Israel considers itself the Jewish state. So Jews (with rare exceptions, e.g., convicted criminals, etc.) have a right to claim citizenship, much like the USA gives every American citizen the right to live anywhere in the USA.

It pisses some people off that there is such a thing as a Jewish state. Ah well. So what else is new?

Nothing to do with Israel. The claim is that any Jew from anywhere can go anywhere in "palestine" and live...apparently taking up land ownership....I'm trying to clarify the ownership bit with marc39 but he has not responded as yet. Maybe the claim has expired.

 

[The Fool]

The OP is talking about the Jewish Law of Return
That article gives a pretty good summary.

No I'm not.
It has nothing to do with any Israeli Legislation. Marc39 believes all Jews.....from anywhere....can go anywhere in Palestine and set up house. He claims this is a "right" and claims it under "international law" (I think).

still trying to establish where he believes this "right" possesed by Jews worldwide is derived from.

 

[Puppycow]

Please define this "Palestine" of which you speak.

Note that Australia, for example, does not let in people who just show up on a boat without permission to enter. Nor Japan, or any other country that I'm aware of.

 

[The Fool]

Please define this "Palestine" of which you speak.

Note that Australia, for example, does not let in people who just show up on a boat without permission to enter. Nor Japan, or any other country that I'm aware of.

I believe Marc39 refers to "Palestine" as in the British Mandate "Palestine"...but it appears he is not around to support the claim.

 

[Beerina]

The OP is talking about the Jewish Law of Return
That article gives a pretty good summary.

So since any Jew can go to Israel, and any Israeli Jew can plant a flag in Palestine, any Jew in the world can plant a flag there, with just some boilerplate to fill out?


Do they restrict non-Jewish Israelis? I'm sure some Israelis are Palestinian by ethnoreligiouswhatthehellever culture. Can they? Or an atheist Jew? What if he's culturally Jewish, but not religiously? What if he's not even that, say, Dr. House?

 

[dudalb]

Kind of pointless. About Five Million Jews are there. That horse has definently left the barn.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Do they restrict non-Jewish Israelis? I'm sure some Israelis are Palestinian by ethnoreligiouswhatthehellever culture. Can they? Or an atheist Jew? What if he's culturally Jewish, but not religiously? What if he's not even that, say, Dr. House?

There are no restrictions, legally, against the movement of non-Jewish Israelis. If one holds Israeli citizenship/residency, you can live pretty much anywhere in Israel, regardless if you're Jewish, Muslim, Zoroastrian, Baha'i, etc. Buying property is difficult for everyone, regardless of your background. Jews can claim Israeli citizenship/residency, under the law of return, as previously stated. Doesn't matter if you're actively practicing or not.

As for the OP, initially, it was a right for Jews to settle in the territory claimed under the British mandate, but this wouldn't mean that the land the Jews lived on would be part of a future Jewish state or the land the Arabs lived on would be part of a future Arab state.

Apart from the major settlement blocs which would be incorporated into the final border demarcations next to the Palestinian state, I don't think it would be in the best interest of both parties to further settle in the WB/Judea-Samaria that would be part of the Palestinian state. To kick out every Jew in the WB would be an even more ridiculous path.

 

[Thunder]

Of course Jews have the right to any land anywhere in "Palestine." God said so.

And God speaks Hebrew...damn it!!!



The weird thing about this idea that any Jew can "return" to Palestine and live whereever they want, is that every years, about 100,000 Gentiles convert to Judaism. Let alone the fact that many if not most Jews have converted Gentiles within their heritage. Before conversion became illegal under Christindom, whole tribes of European and Mediteranean peoples converted to Judaism. This happened in Rome, Greece, Asia Minor, North Africa, and the Eastern Mediteranean regions. So clearly, very few if any Jews can really claim that ALL of their ancient ancestors actually lived in Judaea.

Take me for example. I am white, with blue/green eyes, and red/blond hairs in my bears. I was born blond. I seriously doubt..that 100% of my ancestors are descended from ancient Judaea. And this goes for many other Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.

 

[Thunder]

So since any Jew can go to Israel

wrong.

any Jew can move to Israel. anyone with just one Jewish parent can move to Israel.

infact anyone with just one Jewish grandparent, male or female, can move to Israel.

you can basically be of any nationality, and as long as you are just 1/8th Jewish..you can "return" to Israel.

silly huh?

 

[FireGarden]

infact anyone with just one Jewish grandparent, male or female, can move to Israel.

you can basically be of any nationality, and as long as you are just 1/8th Jewish..you can "return" to Israel.

silly huh?

One drop and you're in is a damn lot better than one drop and you're out -- which is the way Apartheid South Africa defined the black/white divide.

What IS silly is that you are not necessarily allowed to return if you, your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc where actually born there.

 

[Thunder]

What IS silly is that you are not necessarily allowed to return if you, your parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc where actually born there.

you got that right. while most Palestinian refugees would not want to become loyal Israeli citizens, Israel should allow in say 100,000 refugees. which i believe is one possible plan.

 

[portlandatheist]

So Israel has a much more open border than many countries and an easier road to citizenship for Jews? Let's not forget one of Israel's biggest crimes: Operation Moses. What racist monsters! How dare they grant citizenship to these people?