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Cases for the colonisation of Mars

Where better to start learning to terraform than Mars?
Venus. Can't fix a planets gravity. Mars is going to have 1/3 g unless you can find a few more Mars sized planets to drop on it.

But 2001/O'Neill type stations are going to have Earth like environments long before we can think about terraforming.
 
Isn't the space program an incredibly small part of the US budget?

Sure, you can look at the billions spent over the last century to get us into space and exploring other planets and galaxies and say it should have been given to the poor. But what do the poor know about running a space program?

Another completely valid reason is that Mars is known to have women with three tits.

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Venus. Can't fix a planets gravity. Mars is going to have 1/3 g unless you can find a few more Mars sized planets to drop on it.

But 2001/O'Neill type stations are going to have Earth like environments long before we can think about terraforming.
Is 1/3 gravity necessarily a deal-breaker?

I realise muscles can atrophy without use, but being able to leap 10' into the "air" might make for some good advertisments for colonists (should such enticements be necessary)
 
Is 1/3 gravity necessarily a deal-breaker?

I realise muscles can atrophy without use, but being able to leap 10' into the "air" might make for some good advertisments for colonists (should such enticements be necessary)
I don't think we know what 1/3 g would do to our muscles. But I also don't know that muscle atrophy would be the biggest problem. 1/3 g means you aren't going to have a completely Earth like atmosphere and what atmosphere you do have will likely leak off in to space at some rate. I think terraforming will always be a sci-fi concept. At least until we can fix major things like changing a planets mass, orbit and rotation rate. We'll be building continent sized space stations before that happens.
 
A colonization mars would be tough, even with a blank check. Deadly radiation, low temperature, much too low air pressure, the oxygen you have is what you take, massive dust storms, solar power as the only main source of power (maybe wind, but the air is extremely thin), no natural supply of food...

It would be a fight for survival. Think about it. Everybody would have to pull ten times their wait around. Constant vigilance and life support systems. The doctors have to be the best. All the specialists in medicine you have on Earth? Useless once you are on Mars. You just don't have the numbers, at least for the first brave souls that dare venture. And that's just medicine. You'll need the best engineers. The best mechanics. Etc. And each vital person you add is extraordinarily costly. Not just in money, but also precious few resources that we take for granted on Earth. So the small first group would have to represent all of what humanity can do by themselves (on a much smaller scale, of course). You can't wait 6 months to get extra sealant material to reinforce a breach; you can't wait 6 months to get a new solar panel to replace one that is functioning sub par. The pioneers must do it themselves. It will be a test of ingenuity for all. Each and every one who volunteers to be among the first will go knowing there is a good chance they may never stand on Earth's soil again. And once you're there, there is no getting cold feet (pardon the pun). You can't say "I want to go home" and immediately be there.

And yet, it will be a testimony to what we can do. Imagine being the first to live on another planet. The word sublime wouldn't cover it for me. Your survival would be from the dedicated teamwork of you and your peers, as well as the support from those back on Earth. If given the choice, I would go.
 
I don't think we know what 1/3 g would do to our muscles. But I also don't know that muscle atrophy would be the biggest problem. 1/3 g means you aren't going to have a completely Earth like atmosphere and what atmosphere you do have will likely leak off in to space at some rate. I think terraforming will always be a sci-fi concept. At least until we can fix major things like changing a planets mass, orbit and rotation rate. We'll be building continent sized space stations before that happens.

What is magic about 1/3 G? The atmosphere here on Earth leaks away too (mostly the hydrogen and helium), but it hasn't gone away.

It has been pretty well shown that Mars once had an atmosphere, enough to support liquid water in quantity. The reason it lost it (according to current theory) is not a gravity problem but rather that the nagnetic field faded and the atmosphere was driven off by solar wind.

Interestingly enough, the air pressure atop Mt Everest is about 1/3 torr. Not much farther than that and we're within the range of human adaptibility.

The fix for an atmosphere that that does tend to waft off is to create more of it. We'll have to create a bunch of oxygen anyway; there is no good reason why the atmosphere cannot be sustained artificially - a cost of doing business.

As for "it is too big" - would they have considered the possibility 100 years ago that man could affect the whole Earth's climate? If nothing else, this crisis is going to teach us a lot about climate engineering.

Continent sized space stations? I can only wish.
 
Current videos about possible Mars exploration programs:

The current Mars plan, modified from the original $450 billion "90 day report" which was rejected by congress (6 1-hour programs):


Mars Underground - plans for a much cheaper ($45 billion) exploration mission to Mars (a 1-hour program):
 
A colonization mars would be tough, even with a blank check. Deadly radiation, low temperature, much too low air pressure, the oxygen you have is what you take, massive dust storms, solar power as the only main source of power (maybe wind, but the air is extremely thin), no natural supply of food...

It would be a fight for survival. Think about it. Everybody would have to pull ten times their wait around. Constant vigilance and life support systems. The doctors have to be the best. All the specialists in medicine you have on Earth? Useless once you are on Mars. You just don't have the numbers, at least for the first brave souls that dare venture. And that's just medicine. You'll need the best engineers. The best mechanics. Etc. And each vital person you add is extraordinarily costly. Not just in money, but also precious few resources that we take for granted on Earth. So the small first group would have to represent all of what humanity can do by themselves (on a much smaller scale, of course). You can't wait 6 months to get extra sealant material to reinforce a breach; you can't wait 6 months to get a new solar panel to replace one that is functioning sub par. The pioneers must do it themselves. It will be a test of ingenuity for all. Each and every one who volunteers to be among the first will go knowing there is a good chance they may never stand on Earth's soil again. And once you're there, there is no getting cold feet (pardon the pun). You can't say "I want to go home" and immediately be there.

And yet, it will be a testimony to what we can do. Imagine being the first to live on another planet. The word sublime wouldn't cover it for me. Your survival would be from the dedicated teamwork of you and your peers, as well as the support from those back on Earth. If given the choice, I would go.
If given a choice, the line of volunteers would undoubtedly span a continent.


All the Sci-Fi I read that pertains talks about using "cheap" (solar sails) propulsion to deliver resources well in advance of the human contingents arrival, to avoid shortages that could be catastrophic.
 
As has been already pointed out - the Earth is too small and fragile a basket to keep all of humanity's eggs in.

Like it or lump it. It's all we've got.

Humanity won't be saved by colonizing Mars. After the USA's disastrous expansionist adventures in the Middle East I'd have thought this was obvious.
 
Like it or lump it. It's all we've got.

Humanity won't be saved by colonizing Mars. After the USA's disastrous expansionist adventures in the Middle East I'd have thought this was obvious.

Does the US military now command NASA and the ESA? Must have missed that memo.
 
Of course we will JJ.
We’ll need somewhere exile all the towel heads too after we demolish Mecca and build Cyber- Mega-Vegas.
 
I work Exploration, so I'm biased, but here (again) are my totally personal and absolutely unofficial opinions that represent no one but me:

Why explore Mars? My answer is simple and potentially lucrative. One of the primary goals of NASA, and a worthwhile one, is the search for extraterrestrial life. Mars is perhaps the easiest place to look that has a reasonable chance for success. I'm not implying we'll find little green men or Marvin the Martian, but the possibility that there's some kind of extremophilic bacteria or fungus or something of that caliber is a distinct one.

So who's excited about Martian bacteria? Well, you should be. Now that we have genotyping and transgenics developed, such an organism could provide a huge boost to microbiology. A large fraction of current biotech -- and a hundred billion dollars in business and research -- can be traced to a lone extremophile, Thermus aquaticus, that was found in the volcanic vents of the deep sea. Anything capable of surviving on Mars would have adapted to low temperatures, high salinity, a low-pressure reducing atmosphere, metal chemistry, and probably high radiation depending on exactly where it lives.

It is also possible that any organism there doesn't fit our standard model of life at all, but that would be even more exciting, and potentially even more useful.

Martian geology can also provide insight into our own planet's evolution. As we now know, Mars had abundant surface water, and by inference a more substantial atmosphere. This is not well understood at all. Furthermore, here on Earth, we have recovered a few pieces of Mars (over 30), as meteorites that were thrown off and found their way into our gravity well. The reverse will also be true. The MER mission has already found at least one meteorite (though not from Earth) on the Martian surface -- it practically landed on the thing. This particular search is arguably better done on the Moon, but there are reasons why Mars is easier than the Moon, just as there are other reasons why Moon is easier than Mars. As we grapple with questions like AGW, and prepare to spend an estimable fraction of our entire output as a species to either react to or ignore it, what would it be worth to have better modeling tools and additional evidence of the past record?

Colonization is a harder sell. Long-duration missions for the purpose of exploration are defensible through the above, but this does not imply or require a self-sufficient colony. Unfortunately colonies are not and probably will never be the kind of places that ordinary people travel -- there just isn't enough energy lying around to do that. I've argued elsewhere (and professionally) that when we ultimately do colonize other planets, the colonists are not likely to be truly human at all, but instead an engineered species with innate resistance to different environmental hazards. Radiation is the big one. We do not have an answer for it at this time, period.

Mars is also not the best candidate, as always in my own humble opinion, for a colony. Low orbit is. Next best would be the asteroids. Moon or Mars are next, and which is easier depends primarily on propulsion technology -- Moon is closer, but Mars is easier to land on provided you don't mind waiting longer to transfer.

Regarding costs, thus far the costs of Mars exploration have been negligible -- approximately $25B in current dollars, counting everything from Mariner 4 to MSL, spread between several countries. A crewed mission to Mars will, of course, be remarkably expensive, but this is merely a discussion in priorities. What would you rather have scientists work on? There is a business case to be made here, it merely takes vision and will that lasts a couple of decades. Piece of cake. ;)
 
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If we can spend $T's bailing out banks and car companies and deadbeat homeowners, a much smaller sum to advance science and literally expand our horizon doesn't look too bad from here. If Al Gore is right, our planet is doomed and we only have 6 years, 6 months and 16 days to escape.
 
Taking your points out of order.
Interestingly enough, the air pressure atop Mt Everest is about 1/3 torr. Not much farther than that and we're within the range of human adaptibility
This is one thing that baffles me about terraforming. The arguments for it quickly move in to tortured claims about what people might be able to adapt to. If we're terraforming, no adaptation should be required, never mind extreme (as in new species) adaptation. The top of Everest doesn't have permanent encampments, never mind a civilization. The environment there routinely kills people who visit.

What is magic about 1/3 G? The atmosphere here on Earth leaks away too (mostly the hydrogen and helium), but it hasn't gone away.
I would start by pointing out that you're addressing one of the side effects of 1/3 G. The primary point is that 1/3 G isn't 1 G and can't be changed absent finding several more Mars size planets or equivalent and dropping them on Mars.
It has been pretty well shown that Mars once had an atmosphere, enough to support liquid water in quantity. The reason it lost it (according to current theory) is not a gravity problem but rather that the nagnetic field faded and the atmosphere was driven off by solar wind.
No Magnetic field. One more major way Mars can't be Earth.
As for "it is too big" - would they have considered the possibility 100 years ago that man could affect the whole Earth's climate? If nothing else, this crisis is going to teach us a lot about climate engineering.
Well, that's awfully glib isn't it? Do you think that liberating 200 trillion metric tons of oxygen is likely to be one of the things we'll learn during this crisis? And BTW 200 trillion tons of oxygen is just the obvious part. To get the pressure on Mars up to something Earth like we'll have to create even more of some other gases.
The fix for an atmosphere that that does tend to waft off is to create more of it. We'll have to create a bunch of oxygen anyway; there is no good reason why the atmosphere cannot be sustained artificially - a cost of doing business.
I think I have to grant that if we can build the atmosphere in the first place we could sustain it, at least for a while. But it might be instructive to identify the energy source for this liberation process and to identify the reserves of whatever feedstock is feeding this process.

Continent sized space stations? I can only wish.

What obstacle to continental sized space stations can you identify that isn't hugely worse in the case of terraforming Venus or Mars?
 
If we can learn terraforming, it would be worth colonizing Mars. But we can't even prevent the rain forests from disappearing, or terraform the Sahara desert.

Seconded. Terrafoming first, colonizing second. Get the steps in order, sort of like building the walls, then the roof. :cool:
 

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