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UFO'S: A possible explanation

leafman91 said:
Which is not to say something didn't happen. We wouldn't be able to make anything of what did happen, but something did. To correct you, any event before the Big Bang would be free of the order cause and effect imposes. Cause and effect would still happen, but in the wrong order, like a timeline that's been knotted and twisted completely.
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That's an interesting notion...

Does this further propose an active anti-universe?
 
leafman91 said:
When you say, and I quote "We've all seen" you are quite patently wrong. I haven't seen anything. Nothing from the media either. Friends and family? They've seen nothing. If everyone has seen extraterrestrials, there would surely be standing proof by now, contact, even. I'm assuming you are basing your ideas on the 'symbols' within art, religion and history? I've already addressed this statement, and you have yet to reply.
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I'll bet you have seen photos and or video footage...

...even if it is "unconfirmed".
 
leafman91 said:
Fair dice. Each has their own.


They have a whole planet to look after. Do you really think we are so special as to recieve more attention than any other species on the planet? Let's go back to the Christmas Day tsunami in Sri Lanka, which (I think) is the event you were annoyed with on the World Peace thread. The earthquake causing said tsunami was part of the Earth's natural cycle. Shifting tectonics creates volcanoes, which in turn help the rock cycle, and allow a release of pressure from under the Earth's crust. Without earthquakes, earth itself would be stuffed. Natural disasters don't just happen because they feel like it. They happen so the cycle of nature can get back into balance. That's why it happened. Why a big voice didn't tell anyone to get away from the beach... they were way away from the beach before the tsunami hit. Our sensors picked up big a** wave, and told us to scram. We did so. The deaths (most of them) came from fatigue and starvation afterwards.
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I was a world away, and can not speak to the damage sustained. I can only say that 3 reports of deaths all noted that women and children made up most of the dead. One witness noticed that the 'men' were strong enough to grab hold of something and not be swept out to sea...

If you were "all knowing", you'd have heard the 'quake' and known the direction of the resulting wave.

A loud booming voice, "MOVE AWAY FROM THE BEACH", could have saved thousands...

IF there is a omni-potent god, then he's an absentee landlord.
 
King of the Americas said:
TjW said:
You believe there is a civilization of non-human life here on Earth, with industrial capabilities superior to that of humans? Is that a fair characterization of your statements?
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No..."...somewhere nearby, yet not fully explored..."
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I am taking your "No" to my statement of "here on Earth" to mean no, you don't believe they're native to any habitat on Earth, including the oceans. Within the Solar system? Within the Oort cloud?
 
King of the Americas said:
Which part was wrong?
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A singularity is not small and dense, simplistically it has zero size and infinite density, but that is inaccurate because the whole point of a singularity is that the concepts of size and density no longer make sense. In fact, even the concept of "something" doesn't make sense - the whole problem is that the theories we have that describe the universe as it is now simply don't apply before a certain point in time. However, one thing we are very sure of is that the singularity before the big bang was not a "ball of matter" and did not "bring forth light".

leafman91 said:
Which is not to say something didn't happen. We wouldn't be able to make anything of what did happen, but something did. To correct you, any event before the Big Bang would be free of the order cause and effect imposes. Cause and effect would still happen, but in the wrong order, like a timeline that's been knotted and twisted completely.
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Nope.

King of the Americas said:
Does this further propose an active anti-universe?
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Even assuming leafman91's post were correct, no it doesn't.
 
King of the Americas said:
No..."...somewhere nearby, yet not fully explored..."
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Such as? Name me a nearby planet we have yet to give a thorough satellite/telescope scan. No NASA conspiracies here please.

Or is this a hitherto undiscovered planet that doesn't seem to affect any of the other planet's orbits?
 
King of the Americas said:
I'll bet you have seen photos and or video footage...

...even if it is "unconfirmed".
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No, not that I recall. I certainly have heard of such photos/video footage, but nothing solid.

'Unconfirmed' does me no good. I need something I can stand an argument upon before I accept it.
 
King of the Americas said:
I was a world away, and can not speak to the damage sustained. I can only say that 3 reports of deaths all noted that women and children made up most of the dead. One witness noticed that the 'men' were strong enough to grab hold of something and not be swept out to sea...

If you were "all knowing", you'd have heard the 'quake' and known the direction of the resulting wave.

A loud booming voice, "MOVE AWAY FROM THE BEACH", could have saved thousands...
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My point being that they were already away from the beach, and that the voice would have likely gone unnoticed, for lack of people there.

King of the Americas said:
IF there is a omni-potent god, then he's an absentee landlord.
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And you accuse others of using old music...
 
TjW said:
I am taking your "No" to my statement of "here on Earth" to mean no, you don't believe they're native to any habitat on Earth, including the oceans. Within the Solar system? Within the Oort cloud?
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Earlier I proposed the ocean floor, the moon, or even a planet, or one of their moons.

There are PLENTY of places 'nearby' that we have yet to fully explore...
 
King of the Americas said:
Earlier I proposed the ocean floor, the moon, or even a planet, or one of their moons.

There are PLENTY of places 'nearby' that we have yet to fully explore...
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Yes, you've proposed all those, and there are undoubtedly things there yet to be discovered. An industrialized population is not one of them.
 
Boy oh boy. Has the words "Undiscovered natural phenomona" been posted by someone other than me?
 
King of the Americas said:
We'll just have to wait and see, won't we?
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Fine, let's try another thought experiment. Let us suppose there is a whole civilization hidden away underwater. They have been hiding from humanity for all these years, centuries even, with highly advanced technology, their justification being "The barbarity of the human race", using such examples such as serial killers, The Vietnam War, and the Nazi deathcamps as examples. People around the world ponder upon how humanity managed to completely look past a whole civilisation, which, to be fair is situated at the bottom of Mariana trench. They then wonder how this whole civilization doesn't affect the environment in any way. The old classroom acronym, MRSGREN, applies to these people. How do they dispose of waste without disrupting the ecosystem,and without becoming part of it? If they were part of our ecosystem, would we be disrupting them? If they were part of the ecosystem, then how would they escape notice? What about their food source? I seriously doubt a sentient organism that simply lived on pure air/ water. Surely we would have seen their source disappearing without trace?(Remembering here, that bees can't live underwater, and that importing bees would likely attract attention).



Other fun questions with this scenario are: If they knew of our history of war and bloodshed, why did they do nothing to stop it? Would it be right for them to interfere? Are they right to be horrified by the actions of the human race? Or are they being too selective? Would we be rude enough as to ask them for technology? Would it be rude? Would it be within our rights to pillage their civilization for technology, if it meant we could make things better for them and us? Would you think it would happen anyway?


Feel free to borrow my thought experiments. I don't mind, honestly.
 
leafman91 said:
Fine, let's try another thought experiment. Let us suppose there is a whole civilization hidden away underwater. They have been hiding from humanity for all these years, centuries even, with highly advanced technology, their justification being "The barbarity of the human race", using such examples such as serial killers, The Vietnam War, and the Nazi deathcamps as examples. People around the world ponder upon how humanity managed to completely look past a whole civilisation, which, to be fair is situated at the bottom of Mariana trench. They then wonder how this whole civilization doesn't affect the environment in any way. The old classroom acronym, MRSGREN, applies to these people. How do they dispose of waste without disrupting the ecosystem,and without becoming part of it? If they were part of our ecosystem, would we be disrupting them? If they were part of the ecosystem, then how would they escape notice? What about their food source? I seriously doubt a sentient organism that simply lived on pure air/ water. Surely we would have seen their source disappearing without trace?(Remembering here, that bees can't live underwater, and that importing bees would likely attract attention).



Other fun questions with this scenario are: If they knew of our history of war and bloodshed, why did they do nothing to stop it? Would it be right for them to interfere? Are they right to be horrified by the actions of the human race? Or are they being too selective? Would we be rude enough as to ask them for technology? Would it be rude? Would it be within our rights to pillage their civilization for technology, if it meant we could make things better for them and us? Would you think it would happen anyway?


Feel free to borrow my thought experiments. I don't mind, honestly.
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There aren't enough knowns to answer any of those questions...

I mean, maybe they live on algae, that they farm using only sunlight?

While I'd 'like' for them to be civilized and organized into some kind of federation, complete with a prime directive for explorative vehicles, but that may or may not be true.

THE question I'd LOVE to be answered is whether or not the historical prophets that have come or been sent "in their name", truly WERE sent by "god" or not?

Then I'd like to know why the inconsistency between all of them? Is the inconsistency evidence of multiple factions?

Questions abound, but I'm afraid none here can offer any answers.
 
King of the Americas said:
There aren't enough knowns to answer any of those questions...

I mean, maybe they live on algae, that they farm using only sunlight?

While I'd 'like' for them to be civilized and organized into some kind of federation, complete with a prime directive for explorative vehicles, but that may or may not be true.

THE question I'd LOVE to be answered is whether or not the historical prophets that have come or been sent "in their name", truly WERE sent by "god" or not?

Then I'd like to know why the inconsistency between all of them? Is the inconsistency evidence of multiple factions?

Questions abound, but I'm afraid none here can offer any answers.
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You are going off topic.
 
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