Tim Thompson
Muse
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2008
- Messages
- 969
solid Surface and Photosphere II
OK, you have a solid iron surface below the photosphere. The lowest level we can probe by limb darkening measurements presents a temperature about 9400 Kelvins. Iron melts at 1811 Kelvins and boils at 3134 Kelvins, at 1 atmosphere pressure. The highest melting point I know is 3800 Kelvins for carbon, also at 1 atmosphere. The pressure at the 9400 Kelvin layer is about 0.2 atmospheres, which will tend to decrease the melting & boiling temperature of anything. Now there is no avoiding the fact that the bottom layer will radiate 9400 Kelvins both up & down. So how do you protect your solid iron layer from that thermal radiation, so it does not melt? And even if you reject the validity of the 9400 Kelvins determination, we can always retreat to the well observed equivalent black body temperature of about 6000 Kelvins. After all, anything greater than 3134 Kelvins will boil your solid layer. So you will still have to find a way to protect it in any case, from being as thermodynamically impossible as Reality Check suggests.Well, by definition, the photosphere has to be above any solid surface.
The numbers are related to a "mixed plasma" model only in the sense that one would derive such a model from the numbers, rather than deriving the numbers from such a model. The photospheric profile is derived from limb darkening measurements (i.e., Neckel, 2003). As I have already mentioned elsewhere (post 368, post 327, post 275), the profiles are derived from the limb darkening data using standard inversion techniques. If the atmosphere were in fact stratified, it would be obvious from limb observations, when we would be looking parallel to the layers, rather then down onto the top layer. So the data are inconsistent with stratification in the visible photosphere.The optical depth numbers seem to all be related to a "mixed plasma" model and a temperature structure that seems to vary quite a bit compared to what I'd expect from a dynamic double layer process.
Actually, no it does not. Rather, you have chosen to interpret the data from this particular source as indicative of stratification. But that interpretation is open to question at face value, and is inconsistent with the larger body of helioseismological data, so it does not stand up well to scrutiny. See my earlier post 370 where I point out that global data suggests that your discontinuity is not global, but dependent on latitude. Furthermore, as I mentioned in that post, it makes more sense to interpret the discontinuity not as a solid surface, or as any kind of "stratification subsurface", but rather as a sub surface shear (see, for instance, Green, Kosovichev & Miesch, 2006 and Green & Kosovichev, 2006).The heliosiesmology data hurts your model greatly. It demonstrates a "stratification subsurface" exists in the middle of what is supposed to be an open convection zone.
This layer only appears to exist in the vicinity of the sunspot and is probably a result of magnetic inhibition of convection in the vicinity of the sunspot (i.e, Zhao, Kosovichev & Duvall, 2001). It is well known that sunspots are cool compared to the surrounding photosphere because the magnetic field of the sunspot inhibits the upwelling of hot gas from below, so the gas trapped in the sunspot can cool radiatively.It also shows that the downdrafting of plasma under a sunspot is a relatively shallow process with all downdrafting going horizonal around 4800KM below the surface of the photosphere. That layer seems to be interfering with both the upwelling and downdrafting of plasma.
Is this a reference to the running battle over running difference images? if not, what images & what features are you referring too?Furthermore those Doppler images show a "rigid feature" in them that is not consistent with "upwelling plasma".
As I have shown, this is not the case.Heliosiesmology data does not justify your solar model.