Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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DOC said:
Christ never went into detail about Moses' law about a man laying with a man. But Christ did say to love your enemy and judge not lest you be judged. New Testament means "New".

Moses and Jesus also had different views on divorce. Christ said Moses believed the way he did about divorce because of the hardness of his people's hearts. Christ brought new revelation. If Moses had everything down pat, Christ would have never needed to come.
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If Moses did not speak to God who did he speak to up that Mountain? Can we trust a word the man says?
 
DOC said:
The Greeks weren't wondering in the desert for 40 years (after a long period of slavery in a foreign nation) which would not seem favorable to the likelihood of your nation surviving for 2000 years.
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What evidence do you have to support the Bible's "wandering in the desert for 40 years" claim?

Why would having wandered in a desert for 40 years (but survived) "not seem favourable to the likelihood" of a nation surviving subsequently?

How have the Kalahari Bushmen survived in a desert for around 1,000 years?
 
Mojo said:
Not in the desert, but all those {Greek} philosophers certainly did a lot of wondering.
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Yea, you would have thought with all the wondering Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates did that Thomas Jefferson (who knew Latin and Greek) would have pasted their words in I believe a 60 to 80 page book he made instead of the words of Christ (who some have said were just made up). If that is so, the liar and deceiver who made them up outdid the Big 3 of Greek thinking.
 
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DOC said:
Yea, you would have thought with all the wondering Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates did that Thomas Jefferson (who knew Latin and Greek) would have pasted their words in I believe a 60 to 80 page book he made instead of the words of Christ (who some have said were just made up). If that is so, the liar and deceiver who made them up outdid the Big 3 of Greek thinking.
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Doc, You have it all wrong, yet again.

You are partly right Jefferson would have been familiar with Plato, Aristotle and Socrates just as he was familiar with the bible. Yet it was only the bible that he felt was so false, demonstratively wrong and full of supernatural fabrication that he felt compelled to give it a severe editing.
 
DOC said:
Christ never went into detail about Moses' law about a man laying with a man. But Christ did say to love your enemy and judge not lest you be judged. New Testament means "New".
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But christ did go into detail about how a slave and a slave owner should behave. Yet you claim Jesus didn't condone slavery....How strange.

So, we have (according to you):
1. Jesus is against homosexuality (even though Jesus never mentioned it)
2. Jesus doesn't condone killing homosexuals (even though Moses did and Jesus never mentions it)
3. Jesus is against slavery (even though he uses it in stories and was simply too afraid of roman rule to say his true thoughts)

Are there any other things I should know about Jesus that isn't in the perfect book, the bible? Afterall, you seem to magically know his mind and speak for him.
 
DOC said:
The Greeks weren't wondering in the desert for 40 years (after a long period of slavery in a foreign nation)
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And the bible didn't provide ANY basis for the formation of the American government, while greek concepts of common rule did.
 
DOC, what makes the New Testament more relevant than any other religious text?

Why can't the arguments you've been using to justify its validity apply to any similar text?
 
Mojo said:
that depends on whether you consider homoeopathy or herbal medicine to be religions.
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They all sell a product that's far from proven. I repeat the above statement in both cases. And you can add acupuncture, naturopaths, chiropractic, osteopaths, and all manner of alternative quacks.

They are in a way religions as well aren't they?
 
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amb said:
They all sell a product that's far from proven. I repeat the above statement in both cases. And you can add acupuncture, naturopaths, chiropractic, osteopaths, and all manner of alternative quacks.

They are in a way religions as well aren't they?
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They are all delusional. And some followers of religions are delusional as well. Some theists are happy enough with their own beliefs that they don't try to push it onto others. They, generally are not a problem though. It's the drug religion pushers that are the problem. Those that think because they think a certain way, ALL must follow that path. Well, I say DEATH TO ALL FANATICS!!!!!!!!
 
Lothian said:
You are partly right Jefferson would have been familiar with Plato, Aristotle and Socrates just as he was familiar with the bible. Yet it was only the bible that he felt was so false, demonstratively wrong and full of supernatural fabrication that he felt compelled to give it a severe editing.
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But he still thought the teaching of Jesus regarding ethics/morality was above Plato Aristotle and Socrates. He also basically said Christ's teachings were the most sublime ever.
 
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Twiler said:
DOC, what makes the New Testament more relevant than any other religious text?
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Well other than the historical evidence I've brought up through out this thread here is what Thomas Jefferson said about the actual teachings of Jesus:

"His {Christ's} moral doctrines, relating to kindred and friends were more pure and perfect than those of the most correct of the philosophers, and greatly more so than those of the Jews; and they went far beyond both in inculcating universal philanthropy, not only to kindred and friends, to neighbors and countrymen, but to all mankind, gathering all into one family under the bonds of love, charity, peace, common wants and common aids. A development of this head will evince the peculiar superiority of the system of Jesus over all others.

Jefferson's Syllabus of an Estimate of the
Merit of the Doctrines of Jesus,
Compared with Those of Others.

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/jeffbsyl.html

Also there seems to me anyway to be more power in Christianity than in other religions. For example greater examples of things like getting people off drugs, alcohol, healings, life changing experiences, etc.
 
DOC said:
But he still thought the teaching of Jesus regarding ethics was above Plato Aristotle and Socrates. He also basically said Christ's teachings were the most sublime ever.
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So you are alright with everything else that Jefferson said about the Bible as well or are you leaving those things out for a reason? If not, tell us why this statement alone matters and not the host of others.
 
DOC said:
Well other than the historical evidence I've brought up through out this thread here is what Thomas Jefferson said about the actual teachings of Jesus:

"His {Christ's} moral doctrines, relating to kindred and friends were more pure and perfect than those of the most correct of the philosophers, and greatly more so than those of the Jews; and they went far beyond both in inculcating universal philanthropy, not only to kindred and friends, to neighbors and countrymen, but to all mankind, gathering all into one family under the bonds of love, charity, peace, common wants and common aids. A development of this head will evince the peculiar superiority of the system of Jesus over all others.

Jefferson's Syllabus of an Estimate of the
Merit of the Doctrines of Jesus,
Compared with Those of Others.

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/jeffbsyl.html
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That's nice. Do you have your own thoughts on this at all or do you not have any thoughts at all?

Jefferson though Jesus was a great Philosopher. END OF STORY. He didn't believe in any of the magic or "son of god" nonsense. He didn't believe that Jesus was divine and TJ sure as heck didn't have an issue with JC's lack of criticism of slavery now did he?
Also there seems to me anyway to be more power in Christianity than in other religions. For example greater examples of things like getting people off drugs, alcohol, healings, life changing experiences, etc.
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This nonsense again. Your ability to repeat the same nonsense repeatedly is truly astounding.
 
joobz said:
So, we have (according to you):
1. Jesus is against homosexuality (even though Jesus never mentioned it)
2. Jesus doesn't condone killing homosexuals (even though Moses did and Jesus never mentions it)
<snip>

Are there any other things I should know about Jesus that isn't in the perfect book, the bible? Afterall, you seem to magically know his mind and speak for him.
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Well actually the Catholic Church claims to be a representative of Jesus. The Church's position on Homosexuality is that God loves those who have homosexual desires the same as heterosexuals. But that homosexuality is not part of God's order and plan for humanity. The church also states that those who have same sex desires are not responsible for the desires they might have {but I would assume that the Church would say that those desires (that are not a persons fault) should not be dwelt on}. The Church also teaches that these desires should not be acted out (and are sinful if they are) because as I said they are against God's plan for humanity. The reasons for those desires are unknown but there are some theories such as early childhood experiences and how a child was raised.

The Church believes that people who practice same sex sex and also heterosexuals who practice illicit sex such as one night stands are not in the will of God for their life. Christians believe you find the will of God for your life through sincere repentance, accepting Jesus, and prayer. According to Christianity you can only truly be at peace by finding God's will for your life.
 
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DOC said:
Well actually the Catholic Church claims to be a representative of Jesus. The Church's position on Homosexuality is that God loves those who have homosexual desires the same as heterosexuals. But that homosexuality is not part of God's order and plan for humanity. The church also states that those who have same sex desires are not responsible for the desires they might have {but I would assume that the Church would say that those desires (that are not a persons fault) should not be dwelt on}. The Church also teaches that these desires should not be acted out (and are sinful if they are) because as I said they are against God's plan for humanity. The reasons for those desires are unknown but there are some theories such as early childhood experiences and how a child was raised.

The Church believes that people who practice same sex sex and also heterosexuals who practice illicit sex such as one night stands are not in the will of God for their life. Christians believe you find the will of God for your life through sincere repentance, accepting Jesus, and prayer. According to Christianity you can only truly be at peace by finding God's will for your life.
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That's nice. Do you have your own thoughts on this at all or do you not have any thoughts at all?
 
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