From Rapture Ready

[Ethnikos]

A tunnel from where to where? From Russia north of the Caucasus Mountains all the way to Israel? Are you serious?

Here is a link to the Wikipedia page on it. Use the maps to see how this route would be important to going to the South from Russia, if you wanted to go by land.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roki_Tunnel

Also, what is the reason Russia would want to attack Israel?

The reason Russia might want to go through Georgia would be to move equipment on the ground to do close up attacks to re-capture Jerusalem, without blowing it to rubble. The excuse would be an alliance with Iran, that Russia may or may not honor if Israel attacks Iranian targets.There is already a plan for Israel to be attacked by Arab countries.

As to the Gog and Magog prophecy in Ezekiel 38 and 39;. . .
. . . . .
that is the only, pathetically tenuous link by which Russia can be identified with Gog and Magog.

If you were Israel, and were planning something likely to start WWIII, you would be taking a hard look at these prophecies. They already have enough problems now.
What you have to think of is Germany and Berlin being divided up after the second world war. Imagine something similar with Israel and Jerusalem, with different powers wanting a piece. Russia would probably want in on it.

 

[TimCallahan]

The reason Russia might want to go through Georgia would be to move equipment on the ground to do close up attacks to re-capture Jerusalem, without blowing it to rubble. The excuse would be an alliance with Iran, that Russia may or may not honor if Israel attacks Iranian targets.There is already a plan for Israel to be attacked by Arab countries.
If you were Israel, and were planning something likely to start WWIII, you would be taking a hard look at these prophecies. They already have enough problems now.

First of all, a tunnel through a mountain pass connecting North and South Ossetia hardly constitutes a threat to invade Jerusalem. What possible reason would Russia have to to get itself involved in a military quagmire in the Middle East? What reason woud you see that they would have to attack Jerusalem - other than your slavish devotion to a worn-out interpretation of a prophecy in Ezekiel?

When you say "there is already a plan for Israel to be attacked by Arab countries," and "If you were Israel , planning something likely to start WWIII . . ." what the hell are you talking about, beyond your own Hal Lindsey style delusions? What actual evidence do you have for either of these assertions (I know even as I ask this, i'll be sorry I did)?

I'm trying valiently to treat you with some modicum of respect; but wtih every new post form you that job becomes harder and harder.

 

[Agatha]

The Roki tunnel is about 2.25 miles long. From Tblisi in Georgia to Jerusalem is about 860 miles [ http://m.happyzebra.com/distance-calculator/index.php?city=Jerusalem&city2=Tbilisi ] so it's even further from the Roki tunnel to Jerusalem Say 1000 miles to make a nice round number (my google-fu can't get more accurate than that at 3.30 am here).

I'm not sure that a tunnel which is only two tenths of one percent of the distance required has much strategic value if Russia were truly thinking of invading Israel.

 

[Ethnikos]

First of all, a tunnel through a mountain pass connecting North and South Ossetia hardly constitutes a threat to invade Jerusalem. What possible reason would Russia have to to get itself involved in a military quagmire in the Middle East? What reason woud you see that they would have to attack Jerusalem - other than your slavish devotion to a worn-out interpretation of a prophecy in Ezekiel?

I am just trying to imagine why Israel would be so concerned about Georgia that they would have their agents over there setting up for some sort of defense.

When you say "there is already a plan for Israel to be attacked by Arab countries," and "If you were Israel , planning something likely to start WWIII . . ." what the hell are you talking about, beyond your own Hal Lindsey style delusions? What actual evidence do you have for either of these assertions (I know even as I ask this, i'll be sorry I did)?

This is what I am hearing on the radio, that there is a league of four Arab countries preparing to attack Israel, I guess because of what Israel is doing to Gaza and their expansion of West Bank settlements.
I do not have some sort of eschatological theory about Armageddon that I am using to guide my thinking. I am trying to be a little bit rational about the situation. I just do not see all of Israel being nuked. If anything, someone could target Tell Aviv, but nuking Jerusalem would seem to be defeating the purpose of going to war with Israel.

I'm trying valiently to treat you with some modicum of respect; but wtih every new post form you that job becomes harder and harder.

What I am hearing is that there is a big buildup of weapons in Georgia, including F-15s, presumably for bombing Iran. If they did go ahead and start bombing, it may be safe to assume that they could expect some sort of retaliation. If Russia wants to keep their agreements with Iran, they would be a logical candidate for messing with Georgia, to stop the campaign.
The paranoia comes from the aspect of virtual mercenaries in Georgia who might not be too concerned about Georgia becoming a dead zone.

 

[Ethnikos]

So your god has limitations? Weak isn't he? Sorry, you fantasy character created a problem and set the rules but is limited by it? What nonsense.

Self imposed limitations, yes.

So is your god pathetically weak, incompetant or just apathetic?
So what's your fantasy god waiting for?

Not waiting for much, right now. God intends to only have this sort of thing that is happening in this world happen this one time. He is not going to end the world prematurely, before the questions are answered. God is determined to have a remnant of mankind that will be fit to continue on into the future. He restrains his hand from punishing, until they are ready to be presented to the other worlds. Then, the others, who have been allowed to exist alongside God's people, will be dealt with.

Why does all your apologetics seem to make your god seem more pathetic the harder you try?

I may not be the best person in the world to explain God. I continue trying, mainly because I do not see anyone else doing it here.

 

[Elizabeth I]

I may not be the best person in the world to explain God. I continue trying, mainly because I do not see anyone else doing it here.

Wow, not only St. John the Divine, but also John Milton!

 

[TimCallahan]

What I am hearing is that there is a big buildup of weapons in Georgia, including F-15s, presumably for bombing Iran. If they did go ahead and start bombing, it may be safe to assume that they could expect some sort of retaliation. If Russia wants to keep their agreements with Iran, they would be a logical candidate for messing with Georgia, to stop the campaign.
The paranoia comes from the aspect of virtual mercenaries in Georgia who might not be too concerned about Georgia becoming a dead zone.

Okay, let's start from what you've been hearing about a military build-up in Georgia. What is your source here and how reputable is it?

Next, let's deal with your pharase "presumably for bombing Iran." Why would the Russians want to bomb Iran?

Also, you haven't explained why the Russians would want to invade the Near East. Bullying the nations and Russian provinces of the Caucasus is one thing. Bombing Iran and invading Israel are quite another. Remember, the Russians already had their quagmire war in Afghanistan. So, to go with your scenario, we would have to find some compelling motivation for Russia to attack the Near East. The real estate isn't that attractive, and the Russians really don't want or need a new large territory filled with restive subjects and constant episodes of insurgency. Also, as I've already pointed out, the Russians have their own oil. Nor do the Russians need new seaports.

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that the Russians want to take over the oil fields of Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia to blackmail the West. Even if we were assume that the Russians are utterly without any decency - an assumption I do NOT make - the obstacles to such a grand move would be excessive. Any attempt to seize the oil fields would galvanize Arab resistance and provoke an American military response. So, for a dubious prize, the very pragmatic Russians would risk World War III.

 

[tsig]

Self imposed limitations, yes.
Not waiting for much, right now. God intends to only have this sort of thing that is happening in this world happen this one time. He is not going to end the world prematurely, before the questions are answered. God is determined to have a remnant of mankind that will be fit to continue on into the future. He restrains his hand from punishing, until they are ready to be presented to the other worlds. Then, the others, who have been allowed to exist alongside God's people, will be dealt with.
I may not be the best person in the world to explain God. I continue trying, mainly because I do not see anyone else doing it here.

How do you know what is in god's mind?

 

[Ethnikos]

Okay, let's start from what you've been hearing about a military build-up in Georgia. What is your source here and how reputable is it?

Here is a news story that could serve as an example of where this comes from.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/troops-gather-on-georgian-border-1729636.html

Next, let's deal with your pharase "presumably for bombing Iran." Why would the Russians want to bomb Iran?

Israel wants to bomb Iran.

Also, you haven't explained why the Russians would want to invade the Near East.

Russia and Iran have security agreements. If Israel is bombing Iran, Russia might want to do something about it.

 

[Toke]

A 1000 mile tunnel, for a secret invasion?
Saner minds would suggest using RO/RO-ships to move hardvare from one port to another.

 

[Ethnikos]

How do you know what is in god's mind?

There are angels who communicate God's will. That is the definition of what an angel is. Christians should know the basics about these things. It is not like any of this stuff is secret. Look at the New Testament's definition of a Christian. It says: "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."

 

[six7s]

How do you know what is in god's mind?

There are angels who communicate God's will. That is the definition of what an angel is. Christians should know the basics about these things. It is not like any of this stuff is secret. Look at the New Testament's definition of a Christian. It says: "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues."

How do you know that "there are angels who communicate God's will"?

 

[Ethnikos]

A 1000 mile tunnel, for a secret invasion?
Saner minds would suggest using RO/RO-ships to move hardvare from one port to another.

There is no secret invasion and no 1000mile tunnel. Take a look at some pictures of South Ossetia and there are mountains going straight up. To drive from Russia to there, you want to take the tunnel that goes under a pass that is not too safe to drive on.
There is a well publicised desire of Israel to take out Iran's nuclear reactor.
Here's a little video about the war exercises in the area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d39ducVkyk&feature=player_embedded
Here's another story.
http://www.upi.com/Security_Industr...es-war-games-near-Georgia/UPI-62291246366800/

 

[paximperium]

There is no secret invasion and no 1000mile tunnel. Take a look at some pictures of South Ossetia and there are mountains going straight up. To drive from Russia to there, you want to take the tunnel that goes under a pass that is not too safe to drive on.
There is a well publicised desire of Israel to take out Iran's nuclear reactor.

Yeah and how does this relate to your fantastic fictional claim again?

 

[Ethnikos]

Yeah and how does this relate to your fantastic fictional claim again?

My original point was to do with the Rapture, and that if you were hoping for a pre-tribulation rapture, I think it is too late. Whether you want to believe that, may have to do with what you define as tribulation. I was saying a nuke going off should be a good sign, to me.
This story of mine is about people who seem ready and willing to start a war.

 

[Ralph]

How do you know that "there are angels who communicate God's will"?

Because god said there are.

The fact that god said there are was communicated by angels.


Jesus H Christ--I wish I had a nickel for every religious wing-nut that claims to KNOW what god is thinking and what he does & doesn't want you to do.

 

[joobz]

My original point was to do with the Rapture, and that if you were hoping for a pre-tribulation rapture, I think it is too late. Whether you want to believe that, may have to do with what you define as tribulation. I was saying a nuke going off should be a good sign, to me.
This story of mine is about people who seem ready and willing to start a war.

2 nukes went off over Japan. Why wasn't that the mark of the end days?

 

[Toke]

There is no secret invasion and no 1000mile tunnel. Take a look at some pictures of South Ossetia and there are mountains going straight up. To drive from Russia to there, you want to take the tunnel that goes under a pass that is not too safe to drive on.
There is a well publicised desire of Israel to take out Iran's nuclear reactor.
Here's a little video about the war exercises in the area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d39ducVkyk&feature=player_embedded
Here's another story.
http://www.upi.com/Security_Industr...es-war-games-near-Georgia/UPI-62291246366800/

You are still not making sense.

Some infrastructure project in South Ossetia, is claimed to be the preparations for a russian invasion of Israel?
They would still have to drive through georgia, Turkey, and Syria. None of them particulary friendly to russia.

Can´t you maker someting out of russias growing military ro/ro fleet capacity?
(I have no idea if it exist, don´t let that stop you)

 

[TimCallahan]

What I am hearing is that there is a big buildup of weapons in Georgia, including F-15s, presumably for bombing Iran. If they did go ahead and start bombing, it may be safe to assume that they could expect some sort of retaliation. If Russia wants to keep their agreements with Iran, they would be a logical candidate for messing with Georgia, to stop the campaign.

Above is the quote I was initially responding to. Note that you say, "What I am hearing is that there is a big buildup of weapons in Georgia, including F-15s, presumably for bombing Iran." Do you wonder, then, that I thought you were refering to Russia bombing Iran? So, what you were actuall saying was that Israel wants to bomb Iran. And the reason the Israelis would want to do that is ...?

The link you sent in your most recent post is just more stuff about Russia's continuing hostilities with Georgia. Again, I don't see anything here that leads to a Russian invasion of Israel.

 

[Ethnikos]

2 nukes went off over Japan. Why wasn't that the mark of the end days?

If any sort of nuke was a sign of the end, it would have started over 7 1/2 years ago.

Just having a nuke is not the sign that the time of trouble has started, since I think it has started already. The reason I brought up nukes being involved in the war against Iran is because it might take that to wake people up to the fact something is wrong.