Electric universe theories here.

[Reality Check]

keep going boys and girls

This boy is keeping going. Keep digging Sol88 !

 

[Sol88]

That is because there need not be any electric current forming the plasma - all you need is heat from any source, e.g. fusion. It is easier in experiments here on Earth to use electricity.

The plasma is not magnetically reconnecting. It is the magnetic field in the plasma that is reconnecting.

Yup, you are a tripper RC!

From wiki's MR page that you linked to...

According to simple resistive magnetohydrodynamics (MHD) theory, reconnection happens because the plasma's electrical resistivity near the boundary layer opposes the currents necessary to sustain the change in the magnetic field. The need for such a current can be seen from one of Maxwell's equations,

The resistivity of the current layer allows magnetic flux from either side to diffuse through the current layer, cancelling out flux from the other side of the boundary. When this happens, the plasma is pulled out by magnetic tension along the direction of the magnetic field lines. The resulting drop in pressure pulls more plasma and magnetic flux into the central region, yielding a self-sustaining process.

A current problem in plasma physics is that observed reconnection happens much faster than predicted by MHD in high Lundquist number plasmas: solar flares, for example, proceed 13-14 orders of magnitude faster than a naive calculation would suggest, and several orders of magnitude faster than current theoretical models that include turbulence and kinetic effects. There are two competing theories to explain the discrepancy. One posits that the electromagnetic turbulence in the boundary layer is sufficiently strong to scatter electrons, raising the plasma's local resistivity. This would allow the magnetic flux to diffuse faster.

Mmmm.....makes you wonder eh

MR belongs in the same basket (waste) as BH's, DM, DE......et cetera!


What does follow magnetic field lines are electrons! i.e an electric current

 

[tusenfem]

A coronal loop is not a "frozen" magnetic line, but rather it is a moving column of flowing plasma full of kinetic energy, much like any discharge in the Earth's atmosphere. The magnetic fields are not there all by themselves doing all the work by themselves, and they are not driving the parade. The magnetic fields exist *BECAUSE OF* the current flow inside the loop and they are generated by the current flow inside that loop that is heating the plasma inside the loop. The field that forms does in fact "store energy", but only while the current flow remains. Once that current flow stops flowing through the loop, the field dissipates and it fades away just like when you turn off an ordinary plasma ball.

Michael Mozina, again showing your lack of knowledge of electrodynamics. The current flowing in and along the field lines of the loop cannot create the magnetic field of the loop itself. It can only generate the toroidal field component it can never create a magnetic field in the direction of the current flow.

 

[Reality Check]

Yup, you are a tripper RC!

From wiki's MR page that you linked to...

Mmmm.....makes you wonder eh

MR belongs in the same basket (waste) as BH's, DM, DE......et cetera!

What does follow magnetic field lines are electrons! i.e an electric current

Yup, you are a tripper Sol88!

You need to read:
My "need not be any electric current forming the plasma" is refering to the plasma being formed, i.e. creation of plasma.
The article is talking about the flow of current through the magnetic reconnection (in a plasma that is already formed).

Magnetic reconnection is a experimentally verified phenomena that is used daily in plasma physics labs around the world for research: Try reading some of the 3016 preprints that are available (a lot of theory but plenty of experimental results too).

MR belongs in the same basket (actually observed) as BH's, DM and DE!

 

[tusenfem]

Boy your story has changed since we've talked last!

My story has not changed a bit, I may have expanded on it to try to make it clearer to nitwits like you and Michael Mozina.

But if you think I changed anything, please quote me on it Sol88

Why are you people so deluded on the concept of magnetic reconnection??

Maybe because it is observer in space, in the laboratory and in numerical modeling.

Why do we not extract energy here on the Earths surface that utilizes this "majik" magnetic reconnection?
Just take two ferromagnets and wave them past each other and bingo!!

Because it would cost more to generate it than it would deliver in any usable form. What would you do with accelerated plasma? And just "waving two ferromagnets is not gonna get you anything with reconnection. Then it is better to use some coils and have induction whilst you are waving.

but you go on believing that reconnection is a physical event, see where that gets you and I'm sure you'll work it out soon enough!

yes, because it is observed in space and in the laboratory.
where should it get me Sol88, master of ambiguous comments

remember

Hell even MR ,if where true, would still "prove" that the EM force is the DOMINATE force in the Universe and not gravity, either way bye bye Big Bang!!!

this is the most stupid thing ever, Sol88 and it not even dignifies a comment.

 

[tusenfem]

Yup, you are a tripper RC!

From wiki's MR page that you linked to...

Mmmm.....makes you wonder eh

MR belongs in the same basket (waste) as BH's, DM, DE......et cetera!

What does follow magnetic field lines are electrons! i.e an electric current

If you would only bother to read real papers about magnetic reconnection (e.g. in the Earth's magnetotail) you would have the various currents coming out of your nose and ears, dear Sol88. One of the characteristic currents that are generated around a reconnection site are the Hall currents (which flow perpendicular to the magnetic field) which are closed by field aligned currents, and this Hall system generates a quadrupolar magnetic field signature which have clearly been measured by e.g. Runov et al. (2003) (paper also available as pdf per request) using the four Cluster spacecraft.

 

[Sol88]

If you would only bother to read real papers about magnetic reconnection (e.g. in the Earth's magnetotail) you would have the various currents coming out of your nose and ears, dear Sol88. One of the characteristic currents that are generated around a reconnection site are the Hall currents (which flow perpendicular to the magnetic field) which are closed by field aligned currents, and this Hall system generates a quadrupolar magnetic field signature which have clearly been measured by e.g. Runov et al. (2003) (paper also available as pdf per request) using the four Cluster spacecraft.

currents?

electric currents?

no you don't say, thats amazing!

 

[tusenfem]

currents? electric currents? no you don't say, thats amazing!

I knew you would be flabbergasted, because unlike the PU/PC/EU/ES/EC community would like the world to believe, electric currents are an important component of mainstream plasma(astro)physcis and space physics.

 

[Dancing David]

RC's added bits of red.....

Nobody is denying that coronal loops *enter* the corona. It's where they originate (location of footprints) that we are debating.

FYI, the very name of the TRACE instrument is related to what these folks *ASSUMED* before they even launched the instrument. They simply *ASSUMED* that there was a "transition region" where plasma rises in temperature from thousands up to millions of degrees that sits somewhere above the photosphere and lower chromosphere. The existence and location of a "transitional region" high up in the atmosphere was already *ASSUMED* even before launch. Birkeland's solar model doesn't work that way, and his model "predicts" these specific sorts of observations and it predicts them to begin *UNDER* the photosphere as well as potentially above the photosphere as well.

[qimg]http://solar-b.nao.ac.jp/news/070321Flare/SOT_ca_061213flare_cl_lg_frame_076.bmp[/qimg]

Here is an image of a flare in a HINODE image having a direct influence on the intensity of light in the photosphere, meaning the flare started *UNDER* the photosphere, not above it. Below is another composite image which shows all sorts of 171A activity underneath of the photosphere.

[qimg]http://trace.lmsal.com/POD/images/T171_1600_WL_000606_1500.gif[/qimg]

http://trace.lmsal.com/POD/TRACEpodarchive1.html

How do you show the location of the material in the pictures as being under the photosphere?

I am not saying that does not seem liely and perhaps in agreement with the standard model.

 

[Dancing David]

You mean where you refused to read or comprehend the term "metallic globe"?

Where did Birkeland say "the sun is a metal globe"?

 

[Dancing David]

We can observe lightening in the Earth's atmosphere from space. What makes you think we could not see a discharge from below the photosphere at a high energy wavelength?

Sorry MM this is silly, you should avoid that.

Um, the earth's atmoshpere and the photosphere of the sun are similar in very few respects. A very poor argument to say the least.

 

[Sol88]

I knew you would be flabbergasted, because unlike the PU/PC/EU/ES/EC community would like the world to believe, electric currents are an important component of mainstream plasma(astro)physcis and space physics.

Yeah but they (electric currents) do nothing, bar make some pretty lights and release majik "magnetic reconnection" energy!

Now it's become all clear

 

[Sol88]

Oh and accelerate charged particles, sending them throughout the universe!

Like them rascally pulsars!

How big is the electric field involved in your garden variety pulsar?

 

[Sol88]

double post

 

[Sol88]

Ok question for the non EU'rs

What do electric currents and electric fields DO in space? (which is 99.99% matter in the plasma state)?

 

[edd]

"What do electric currents and electric fields DO in space? (which is 99.99% matter in the plasma state)?"

What sort of question is that?! I mean, it's like saying "What do apples DO on trees?"

And space isn't 99.99% plasma. If anything it's mostly empty, and if you mean what is the main thing in space then it ain't baryonic matter.

 

[tusenfem]

Where did Birkeland say "the sun is a metal globe"?

I am still waiting to be pointed to where Birkeland discusses the "solar wind" and the electrons dragging along the ions. I did not find it in da-biggie-book.

 

[tusenfem]

1. Yeah but they (electric currents) do nothing, bar make some pretty lights and release majik "magnetic reconnection" energy!
2. Now it's become all clear
3. Oh and accelerate charged particles, sending them throughout the universe!
4. Like them rascally pulsars! How big is the electric field involved in your garden variety pulsar?
5. What do electric currents and electric fields DO in space? (which is 99.99% matter in the plasma state)?

Wow, are you going to answer my questions too? (nah don't think so)

1. Electric currents can make pretty light, they do not, however release magnetic energy. Apparently, you still have not read any of the papers concerning reconnection. The energy is released as bulk plasma acceleration, which is not a current, as you probably don't know.
2. Glad it is clear to you, I have not got the foggiest.
3. Currents do not "accelerate" particles, currents are flowing net-charge. This is just stupidity on top of dumbness and ignorance. wrapped in a blanket of trolling and ingloriousness
4. Calculate the electric field at the poles of a pulsar for yourself. Magnetic field of 10¹² Gauss, radius of 10 km, rotational rate of 3 seconds, inclination of 30 degrees and E = - v x B.
5. Oh they do absolutely nothing, watch TV now and then when they get bored, otherwise they either just sit or flow. They might follow the Tour de France starting this weekend.

 

[Sol88]

"What do electric currents and electric fields DO in space? (which is 99.99% matter in the plasma state)?"

What sort of question is that?! I mean, it's like saying "What do apples DO on trees?"

And space isn't 99.99% plasma. If anything it's mostly empty, and if you mean what is the main thing in space then it ain't baryonic matter.

Ahhh I see your problem Edd, you know sqat!

I'll let you in on a secret space, outer space, is mostly ionized hydrogen i.e. a PLASMA which you mat not be aware is an electrically conductive medium!

Outer space (often simply called space) comprises the relatively empty regions of the universe outside the atmospheres of celestial bodies. Outer space is used to distinguish it from airspace and terrestrial locations.

Contrary to popular understanding, outer space is not completely empty (i.e. a perfect vacuum), but contains a low density of particles, predominantly hydrogen plasma, as well as electromagnetic radiation and neutrinos. Hypothetically, it also contains dark matter and dark energy.

And Hypothetically it contains "stuff" that the mainstream have NO idea what it is but it MUST be there, or our model the BB, expanding universe is wrong which we are sure it's not!

Have a look at this pretty picture

Protium, the most common isotope of hydrogen, has one proton and one electron. Unique among all stable isotopes, it has no neutrons (see diproton for discussion of why others do not exist).

Throughout the universe, hydrogen is mostly found in the atomic and plasma states whose properties are quite different from molecular hydrogen. As a plasma, hydrogen's electron and proton are not bound together, resulting in very high electrical conductivity and high emissivity (producing the light from the sun and other stars). The charged particles are highly influenced by magnetic and electric fields. For example, in the solar wind they interact with the Earth's magnetosphere giving rise to Birkeland currents and the aurora. Hydrogen is found in the neutral atomic state in the Interstellar medium. The large amount of neutral hydrogen found in the damped Lyman-alpha systems is thought to dominate the cosmological baryonic density of the Universe up to redshift z=4.[56]

MMmmmmmm......now think my man!

 

[edd]

I know more than enough thanks. You'll note that way back when I was amongst the first to point out that one of the few things your lot is getting correct is that nearly all baryonic matter in the universe is indeed in the plasma state. What I'm pointing out is that this is not the same as saying space is nearly all plasma.

It's also wrong to say that there's "a low density of particles, predominantly hydrogen plasma, as well as electromagnetic radiation and neutrinos."
Do you know what the baryon to photon ratio is?

Now, I'll certainly concede that by energy density baryons outweigh the photons, but if you do that you'll have to concede that the baryons are outweighed by the dark sector.

Which I know you don't believe in, but that doesn't change the truth of the matter.