Why a one-way Crush down is not possible

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bill smith said:
I on't believe that they were crushed o course. I believe they were removed from their normal support function in a sequential fashion by devious means.
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So why are you saying that 100% of the structure below was crushed when you meant just the floors?

So again. You would rather believe that there was controlled demolition over believing that the upper section of the tower collapsed and bent or sheared the floor truss supports on it's way down?
 
Gamolon said:
So why are you saying that 100% of the structure below was crushed when you meant just the floors?

So again. You would rather believe that there was controlled demolition over believing that the upper section of the tower collapsed and bent or sheared the floor truss supports on it's way down?
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To be clear I believe that controlled demolitions and gravity brought the buildings down. I think most of the floors were pulverised into dust using nanothermite which explains the lack of wire mesh reinforcing and floorpans in the rubble. They were evaporated. The core columns were selectively and sequentially removed. The perimeter columns probably peeled off and required only a little explosive here and there.
 
bill smith said:
To be clear I believe that controlled demolitions and gravity brought the buildings down. I think most of the floors were pulverised into dust using nanothermite which explains the lack of wire mesh reinforcing and floorpans in the rubble. They were evaporated. The core columns were selectively and sequentially removed. The perimeter columns probably peeled off and required only a little explosive here and there.
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You do realize that to pulverize that concrete you need a force in excess of 3000psi applied to the entire floor plate? If an explosive created this much pressure, the people in NYC would have lost their hearing.
 
Newtons Bit said:
You do realize that to pulverize that concrete you need a force in excess of 3000psi applied to the entire floor plate? If an explosive created this much pressure, the people in NYC would have lost their hearing.
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I can explain that but not on this thread.
 
Gamolon said:
Funny, but isn't that what my model is? My "dowel" columns are NOT below and floors and the floor "weights" are hanging on the "thumbtack" supports.

Not sure I see you're point. Can you elaborate please?
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The point should be obvious: he is fundamentally dishonest, and will move the goalposts as he chooses, or evade your proposal by deflection and deception.

Ad nauseum.
 
alienentity said:
The point should be obvious: he is fundamentally dishonest, and will move the goalposts as he chooses, or evade your proposal by deflection and deception.

Ad nauseum.
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I say this about once a week.

BillSmith is trolling. BillSmith is here to feed his ego. Why people respond to him, satisfy his urges and feed his ego is beyond me. Part of me wonders if those responding don't have the same urges.

There isn't a lurker alive, who has a working brain, that would be persuaded by BillSmith.
 
Newtons Bit said:
You do realize that to pulverize that concrete you need a force in excess of 3000psi applied to the entire floor plate? If an explosive created this much pressure, the people in NYC would have lost their hearing.
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Not only that, but a good part of the tower would be nowhere near its "footprint". They would've had to have divers recover parts of the building from the Hudson.
 
sylvan8798 said:
And what about the large horizontal load that now develops at the hinge? If the column is now *free* in space above the hinge, will it not be shoved outwards? (or inwards, if we're talking about the core?)
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The load on the hinge by the intact/damaged floor is always vertical. This vertical load is transmitted to the vertical column as compression force. This force may also displace the column sideways! Yes - the structure is 3D. All described in my paper.
 
Gamolon said:
Funny, but isn't that what my model is? My "dowel" columns are NOT below and floors and the floor "weights" are hanging on the "thumbtack" supports.

Not sure I see you're point. Can you elaborate please?
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The "thumbtack" or dowel column doesn't get one-way crushed down. Your design only suffers local failures of some elements. You really have to try to understand what a One-way Crush down is; the columns must also fail.
 
Heiwa said:
The load on the hinge by the intact/damaged floor is always vertical. This vertical load is transmitted to the vertical column as compression force. This force may also displace the column sideways! Yes - the structure is 3D. All described in my paper.
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Where is the pivot of this hinge?
 
Heiwa said:
The "thumbtack" or dowel column doesn't get one-way crushed down. Your design only suffers local failures of some elements. You really have to try to understand what a One-way Crush down is; the columns must also fail.
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But the columns didn't all fail in the WTC. Mostly, it was the connections between the columns, and between the columns and floors.
 
Heiwa said:
Between the floor and column sides. Where else can it be?
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The load on the hinge by the intact/damaged floor is always vertical. This vertical load is transmitted to the vertical column as compression force.
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If it's on the side of the column then it's not only going to be a vertical load.
 
alexi_drago said:
Where is the pivot of this hinge?
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Didn't you know? Structural Steel shapes can rotate 90 degrees at a hinge without any damage! </sarcasm>

In reality, it depends on the depth of the member. For the angle webs of the joists it's probably about 20 degrees before the steel fractures and pulls apart.

And once it does that, it's a completely tension on element, which means it's pulling the column inwards instead of bracing that column. In a real world case, not a heiwa world case, these columns would collapse under their own self-weight.
 
Newtons Bit said:
Didn't you know? Structural Steel shapes can rotate 90 degrees at a hinge without any damage! </sarcasm>

In reality, it depends on the depth of the member. For the angle webs of the joists it's probably about 20 degrees before the steel fractures and pulls apart.

And once it does that, it's a completely tension on element, which means it's pulling the column inwards instead of bracing that column. In a real world case, not a heiwa world case, these columns would collapse under their own self-weight.
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This I know but even assuming such a hinge existed then for the floor section to exert only a vertical load on the column the floor section would have to occupy the same space as the columns which must even be impossible in whatever universe Heiwa is curently residing.
 
Heiwa said:
Yes, it is the Topic of this popular thread that I started
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Why even respond if you're going to clip my question from my original post and not answer it? I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but if you're going to be THAT evasive...

I believe that when you say "one-way crush down" you have a very specific meaning in mind that makes it technically true whenever you say "it can never happen". However, you're not sharing that meaning with us.

It's as if I kept repeating, "Heiwa can't perform simple arithmetic" over and over, each time witholding the fact that my special definition for "simple arithmetic" is "to divide by zero". That would be a childish game, wouldn't it? Sort of like the one you're playing with this "one-way crush down" business.

I've got to hand it to you; you've got intellectual cowardice down to a fine art.
 
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