UFO'S: A possible explanation

[Marduk]

Thank you.

To the Hopi, the Sun, WAS an unidentified 'flying' object...

...that they worshipped.

WE know it is just a star, that isn't God, and that we need not worship it.

You JUST said they thought the Sun could take human form...then you write:

"...to claim that solar deities were worshipped because people didn't know what it was is just wrong, and unsupportable"

WHAT???

So, the Sun CAN take human form, and it ISN'T a star, but THE actual God of Creation??

Clearly, you have all the rope you need...*insert roll eyes icon here*

I think this concludes your claim that "you are in the best position to examine cultures you know nothing about because you know something about ufos", the fact that you aren't aware that Gods can take more than one form and still be a god says just about everything about what you don't know

in future why don't you learn to research properly instead of imagining that you have all the answers
you don't
you just proved it

oh yes
this is for you
http://www.hellblazer.com/media/pwned.jpg

 

[King of the Americas]

I think this concludes your claim that "you are in the best position to examine cultures you know nothing about because you know something about ufos", the fact that you aren't aware that Gods can take more than one form and still be a god says just about everything about what you don't know

in future why don't you learn to research properly instead of imagining that you have all the answers
you don't
you just proved it

oh yes
this is for you
http://www.hellblazer.com/media/pwned.jpg

You're not responding to my contentions...AND you are misquoting me.

My SINGULAR point is that like other ancient peoples, the Hopi did NOT 'know' what their God was either.

They worshipped a "U.F.O."

 

[TjW]

You're not responding to my contentions...AND you are misquoting me.

My SINGULAR point is that like other ancient peoples, the Hopi did NOT 'know' what their God was either.

They worshipped a "U.F.O."

No. They may not have understood that it was a ball of fusing hydrogen, but it was perfectly well identified.

 

[King of the Americas]

No. They may not have understood that it was a ball of fusing hydrogen, but it was perfectly well identified.

NO, it wasn't.

They 'thought' it was God, AND that it could take human form...

They did NOT know 'what' it truly was, which led to them worshipping it.

Had they known it was just a star, they likely would have NOT thought it was a shape shifting God...

 

[Marduk]

You're not responding to my contentions...AND you are misquoting me.

My SINGULAR point is that like other ancient peoples, the Hopi did NOT 'know' what their God was either.

They worshipped a "U.F.O."

The Hopi knew that their god was the sun, they still know that Taiowa is the sun. You are claiming that the sun is a ufo arent you like I predicted you would earlier, its the last breath of a dying man.
thats so tragic its funny, you'd have saved more face if instead of being deliberately obtuse as you have been, you had actually bothered to do a little research yourself.
Your claims so far in this thread about what you claim to have researched have been proven fallacious several times over
your inability to grasp simple religious concepts are astounding, are you really unable to grasp the concept that a God can be in two places at once, that a god can choose what form he appears in, that a god is not a ufo, that a god needs no other identity apart from his divinity. All these are true and based on facts

there are groups in history who have worshipped ufos as gods, we havent even mentioned any in this thread, you want a list ?

 

[TjW]

NO, it wasn't.

They 'thought' it was God, AND that it could take human form...

They did NOT know 'what' it truly was, which led to them worshipping it.

Had they known it was just a star, they likely would have NOT thought it was a shape shifting God...

No. It had a unique identity. It was that thing, and nothing else was that thing. Therefore it was identified.

I don't know who you are. Should I refer to you as an Unidentified Internet Poster? No. You are an Anonymous Internet Poster, but not unidentified.

 

[King of the Americas]

The Hopi knew that their god was the sun, they still know that Taiowa is the sun. You are claiming that the sun is a ufo arent you like I predicted you would earlier, its the last breath of a dying man.
thats so tragic its funny, you'd have saved more face if instead of being deliberately obtuse as you have been, you had actually bothered to do a little research yourself.
Your claims so far in this thread about what you claim to have researched have been proven fallacious several times over
your inability to grasp simple religious concepts are astounding, are you really unable to grasp the concept that a God can be in two places at once, that a god can choose what form he appears in, that a god is not a ufo, that a god needs no other identity apart from his divinity. All these are true and based on facts

there are groups in history who have worshipped ufos as gods, we havent even mentioned any in this thread, you want a list ?

The Hopi 'knew'...?

How specifically did they 'know', the Sun could shape shift?

Grasping concepts about God...that he can be whatever he wants, that he can appear in two places as once, and these are concepts are based on 'facts'...? Where did you get these 'facts' about God?

We 'know' what the Sun really is. It is not beyond comprehension that today's Hopi do too.

But you are making two VERY different statements in regards to yesterday's Hopi-

-That they worshipped the Sun as a shape shifting God

&

-That they 'knew' it was just a star

The two stances are categorically at odds with one another.

---

I have a pineapple. I told the crack heads across the street, that it was "Laroo"- the fruit God who can fly, create magic mushrooms, and forgive sins. They saw it 'fly' after I tossed it over their house along with some magic shrooms. So they believe in "Laroo', and pay due homage and even offered up a virgin to sacrifice, hoping to land more shrooms.

Guess what, IT ISN'T "Laroo", or any other deity...it's a "pineapple"!

The Sun is NOT a shape shifting God that can appear in human form. It is a ball of burning hydrogen, and from everything I know about the Hopi, they did NOT know 'what' the Sun really was.

 

[King of the Americas]

No. It had a unique identity. It was that thing, and nothing else was that thing. Therefore it was identified.

I don't know who you are. Should I refer to you as an Unidentified Internet Poster? No. You are an Anonymous Internet Poster, but not unidentified.

You 'could' identify me, with further investigation. My screen name doesn't 'identify' me. Someone else could log on as me, and you'd be none the wiser.

The Hopi 'identified' the Sun as "Taiowa"-God.

This was an invalid finding.

This 'thing' that was nothing else COULD 'change', into a human in fact. This too was inaccurate.

The Hopi did NOT 'know' what the Sun was. They knew 'of' it, but not 'what' it was...

 

[Marduk]

The Sun is NOT a shape shifting God that can appear in human form. It is a ball of burning hydrogen, and from everything I know about the Hopi, they did NOT know 'what' the Sun really was.

they knew it as their chief creator God, how can you possibly sit there and attempt to tell me what the Hopi do and do not believe, you've never studied them. I suppose the Egyptians who worshipped Ra also didn't know what they were praising eh.
laughable
0/10

 

[Marduk]

You 'could' identify me, with further investigation. My screen name doesn't 'identify' me. Someone else could log on as me, and you'd be none the wiser.

The Hopi 'identified' the Sun as "Taiowa"-God.

This was an invalid finding.

This 'thing' that was nothing else COULD 'change', into a human in fact. This too was inaccurate.

The Hopi did NOT 'know' what the Sun was. They knew 'of' it, but not 'what' it was...

we're not talking about modern realities here, we are talking about established and documented Native American belief systems
they knew it wasn't aliens, and they knew what they were looking at

now really, show me a ufo which can appear in human form or as the sun and you'll have made a point
til then, this is a huge waste of time because my friend you are incapable of rational thought because you have an agenda based on your beliefs, those beliefs which as you have shown have no supporting evidence, the Hopi belief that the sun is a creator has plenty of evidence, the fact that they anthropomorphised it also not only is evidenced but is actually 100% normal amongst religions all over the world

 

[King of the Americas]

they knew it as their chief creator God, how can you possibly sit there and attempt to tell me what the Hopi do and do not believe, you've never studied them. I suppose the Egyptians who worshipped Ra also didn't know what they were praising eh.
laughable
0/10

What I am suggesting is that NONE of the ancients 'correctly' identified God. They put upon these objects, supernatural qualities, and then worshipped them.

Indeed, I have never studied the Hopi. I know of them only what you have posted here. YOU are the one saying what the Hopi 'knew', and so far you've suggested that they 'knew' two opposing things about the Sun.

So, which is it? Did the Hopi KNOW the Sun was a star, OR did they KNOW it was a shape shifting God?

 

[Marduk]

What I am suggesting is that NONE of the ancients 'correctly' identified God. They put upon these objects, supernatural qualities, and then worshipped them.

Indeed, I have never studied the Hopi. I know of them only what you have posted here. YOU are the one saying what the Hopi 'knew', and so far you've suggested that they 'knew' two opposing things about the Sun.

So, which is it? Did the Hopi KNOW the Sun was a star, OR did they KNOW it was a shape shifting God?

both, ask yourself from a christian perspective, is Jesus the father or the son or both ?

2 billion people can't be wrong can they.
apparently either you are saying that they are wrong or that you don't agree with their beliefs. If the latter thats fine, thats irrelevant as its what faith is built on, if its the former, then youre vastly outnumbered in your ignorance of religious concepts aren't you.

we're not talking about factual reality here, we are talking about what people believed. without you knowing what they believed (and its quite clear you don't) you are in no position to claim anything is wrong.
I would bet if we took a worldwide census the vast majority of people would believe you were a ufo nut. that doesn't make it true either but if thats what people believe there is very little you can do about it

 

[King of the Americas]

we're not talking about modern realities here, we are talking about established and documented Native American belief systems
they knew it wasn't aliens, and they knew what they were looking at

If you 'knew' 2+6=456, do you know what 2+6 REALLY equals?

now really, show me a ufo which can appear in human form or as the sun and you'll have made a point
til then, this is a huge waste of time because my friend you are incapable of rational thought because you have an agenda based on your beliefs, those beliefs which as you have shown have no supporting evidence, the Hopi belief that the sun is a creator has plenty of evidence, the fact that they anthropomorphised it also not only is evidenced but is actually 100% normal amongst religions all over the world

If I were capable of 'showing' you a ufo that can turn into a human, then the Hopi would be 'right'. I am suggesting the opposite. That the Hopi were WRONG, and that the Sun can NOT shape shift.

If you can present evidence that the Sun IS the creator God and that it can turn into a human, then you'll score some points with me.

A bunch of people 'believing' in something isn't evidence of anything, didn't you hear?

 

[King of the Americas]

both, ask yourself from a christian perspective, is Jesus the father or the son or both ?

2 billion people can't be wrong can they.

Sure they can. Before the modern age, EVERYONE on the planet 'knew' the Earth was the center of the universe.

"Yeshua" was a man, NOT God in the flesh. While on the cross he spoke 'outloud', "Father why hast thou forsaken me?" Are you suggesting that God talks to himself?

apparently either you are saying that they are wrong or that you don't agree with their beliefs. If the latter thats fine, thats irrelevant as its what faith is built on, if its the former, then youre vastly outnumbered in your ignorance of religious concepts aren't you.

They are wrong.

we're not talking about factual reality here, we are talking about what people believed. without you knowing what they believed (and its quite clear you don't) you are in no position to claim anything is wrong.
I would bet if we took a worldwide census the vast majority of people would believe you were a ufo nut. that doesn't make it true either but if thats what people believe there is very little you can do about it

I am talking about factual reality. YOU are the one dealing in beliefs.

The 'fact' is that the Sun is NOT a shape shifting God.

YOU claimed that the Hopi 'believed' it WAS a shape shifting God, this was and remains an inaccurate finding.

According to YOU, the Hopi didn't really know much of any truth about the Sun.

 

[Marduk]

A bunch of people 'believing' in something isn't evidence of anything, didn't you hear?

it is evidence of their belief, we are discussing their beliefs, I am finding it hard to believe that you have forgotten what we are discussing, so i'll just put it down that once again you are a poor loser

 

[leafman91]

If you 'knew' 2+6=456, do you know what 2+6 REALLY equals?



If I were capable of 'showing' you a ufo that can turn into a human, then the Hopi would be 'right'. I am suggesting the opposite. That the Hopi were WRONG, and that the Sun can NOT shape shift.

If you can present evidence that the Sun IS the creator God and that it can turn into a human, then you'll score some points with me.

A bunch of people 'believing' in something isn't evidence of anything, didn't you hear?

At this point you have left me dazed and confused, muddled in paths of logic, trying to see how to jump from one stone to the next without snagging on reality. You had stated your opinion, that the Hopi did not identify God, instead worshipping the sun. Because they thought the sun was god, they were worshipping an unidentified flying object. And there is where your logic begins to break down. I agree completely that the Hopi mislabelled the Sun as God. However, this does not mean they were worshipping something unidentified. They had identified the sun as God, perhaps incorrectly identifying the sun as god, but identifying the sun all the same.

Secondly you have said that ALL the ancients have mislabelled God. I would quite dearly like to see some proof. What was Zeus to the Greeks? What was Jupiter to the Romans? Osiris to the Egyptians? They were the God of gods to their respective pantheons, and I fail to see how this would not translate to God, the same Christian God, the Muslim's Allah,the Hindu's atman/Brahman/Krishna. I suggest you start researching right now if you wish to support your statement still.You have a lot of proving to do.

You talk about factual reality and beliefs within the context of religion.This puts you in dangerous waters indeed. I would carefully word my replies if I were you.

Lastly, you say that the Hopi didn't know much about the sun. I wish to ask you, how well do you know your own God?

 

[Marduk]

I am talking about factual reality. YOU are the one dealing in beliefs.

need I remind you then that we are discussing the Hopi so you could prove your point that someone can understand their culture better than they can without studying it. so far on that = EPIC FAIL

The 'fact' is that the Sun is NOT a shape shifting God.

It is to the Hopi

YOU claimed that the Hopi 'believed' is WAS a shape shifting God, this was and remains an inaccurate finding.

no, its totally accurate, the Hopi do believe that

According to YOU, the Hopi didn't really know much of any truth about the Sun.

are you saying that religious beliefs are founded upon scientific truths.
laughable

 

[realpaladin]

I am suggesting the opposite. That the Hopi were WRONG, and that the Sun can NOT shape shift.

The Hopi were wrong. The Sun can not shape shift. Feeling relieved?

A bunch of people 'believing' in something isn't evidence of anything, didn't you hear?

Yeah, like, in UFO's and stuff.

 

[realpaladin]

Secondly you have said that ALL the ancients have mislabelled God. I would quite dearly like to see some proof. What was Zeus to the Greeks? What was Jupiter to the Romans? Osiris to the Egyptians? They were the God of gods to their respective pantheons, and I fail to see how this would not translate to God, the same Christian God, the Muslim's Allah,the Hindu's atman/Brahman/Krishna. I suggest you start researching right now if you wish to support your statement still.You have a lot of proving to do.

When he starts I will add the 1000+ other Hindu Gods as well, just for laughs.

Lastly, you say that the Hopi didn't know much about the sun. I wish to ask you, how well do you know your own God?

I know my God not half as well as Yorick, whom I, alas, knew not at all.

 

[Marduk]

The Hopi were wrong. The Sun can not shape shift. Feeling relieved?

I'm guessing you never smoked peyote