• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Did We Kill Michael Jackson?

Oliver said:
BTW: Is there any evidence that Michael Jackson was sexually abused by his father/did he ever say something about that despite the mental and physical abuses in terms of punishment/caning?
Click to expand...

None that anyone is aware of.
 
Checkmite said:
None that anyone is aware of.
Click to expand...


Then it might be true that [according to his views about it] his Neverland Ranch was meant to do all the things he missed in his childhood - and to share those experiences with kids who didn't have a "normal" childhood as well [due to sickness etc.]. Which, by itself, does sound innocent and non-sexual - even if ugly minds did use that POV as an argument to judge him as being a pedophile.

What's strange, though, is the fact that he obviously [according to a press that could be wrong] had issues with women. So is there a detailed article about his relationship to his mom?
 
Darat said:
And was this submitted as evidence during his trial?
Click to expand...

Yes; the defense's counter was that the particular kids in question were "uncontrollable" and found their own way into MJ's porn stash when he wasn't there. Which isn't exactly unbelievable.
 
Oliver said:
Then it might be true that [according to his views about it] his Neverland Ranch was meant to do all the things he missed in his childhood - and to share those experiences with kids who didn't have a "normal" childhood as well [due to sickness etc.]. Which, by itself, does sound innocent and non-sexual - even if ugly minds did use that POV as an argument to judge him as being a pedophile.
Click to expand...

Wait a second - what does his not having been sexually abused as a child have to do with anything? You're not making sense. Jackson's alleged crimes occurred while he was an adult, not when he was a kid.
 
Darat said:
And was this submitted as evidence during his trial?
Click to expand...

According to the reporter covering the trial for Slate, yes:

http://www.slate.com/id/2115135/

Just found two real newspapers who ran a story on it:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/college/ny-usjack0326,0,227672.story


Jackson's defense didn't bring it up, probably because they knew it probably wouldn't sound very good and do him no favors, but it's also possible he gave the kids porn and looked at it with them in the same way a 12-year-old might share his stash with his buddies. Or Jackson could have given it to the boys so they could use it on their own. Or they watched/looked at it together without anything happening between them- that you'd use porn with a teenager doesn't necessarily mean you intend to have sex with him.
 
Oliver said:
BTW: Is there any evidence that Michael Jackson was sexually abused by his father/did he ever say something about that despite the mental and physical abuses in terms of punishment/caning?
Click to expand...
.
LaToya did a video for Playboy years ago.
The implication of molestation was kinda blatant.
 
The real question is not "did we kill Michael Jackson?", but "can Michael Jackson be killed?"

The answer is "yes" but it takes a shotgun blast to the head to be certain...
 
EeneyMinnieMoe said:
What you said.

And here are some more:

He often waxed poetic about the beauty and innocence and purity of children. Language typical of a pedophile.
Click to expand...

Right. Like he was in love with children; placing them on a pedestal.

He invited children of both genders to his home but the boys seemed to outnumber the girls...and he displayed very little interest in the girls. If he loved children so much, why didn't he pay attention to these children's sisters?
Click to expand...

Right. These are seemingly small things that are hard to ignore when added up.

The boys he took an interest in were often of the same specific age and the same stage of puberty. Both accusers were 13 at the time of the alleged rape.

The boys never seemed to stay around when they became teenagers and adults. Few if any of them seem to have maintained their relationships with him past a certain age.

He surrounded himself with children who were terminally ill, had single parents, were very poor or had some other personal problems. Generosity? Or singling out a weak, shy, needy, lonely and defenseless child, as pedophiles often do? Or both?

He lavished money, time and attention on children he didn't abuse, maybe to gain the trust and goodwill of parents and guardians and the goodwill of the public and community. Typical of a pedophile.

He had few companions and friends of his own age- Uri Geller and Deepak Chopra seem to be exaggerating their relationship with him and he didn't seem all that close with other people who say they were friends, such as Liz Taylor and MC Hammer- and seemed more comfortable and relaxed around children than around adults.

Again, this isn't hard evidence. Again, this doesn't prove he was a pedophile. Still, when you stack them up and take them all together, they do seem to point to it.

The parents of these kids, though. What were they thinking? A complete and total stranger and they left their children all alone with him for weeks, something you wouldn't do if he was your own brother or your closest friend.
Click to expand...

All good points ... thought of these but didn't want to blow my wad, making that last post any longer ;)
 
Bill Thompson said:
The story keeps changing.

Now I am back to thinking Jackson was a liar.

Although he said the sperm came from him in an interview, it turns out that that was a lie.

This guy is the real biological father:

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/arnold-klein-pic.jpg

Dr. Arnold Klein.
Click to expand...

Of course the guy was a liar; world class.

He sat there, with a straight face, and insisted that one of the mothers of his kids was Black, simply because Bashir questioned whether or not he would be with a Black woman. Give me a break. Have you seen all his kids?: lily White, without albino features. ... And sorry, vitiligo doesn't take over that quickly.
 
Checkmite said:
Wait a second - what does his not having been sexually abused as a child have to do with anything? You're not making sense. Jackson's alleged crimes occurred while he was an adult, not when he was a kid.
Click to expand...

Statistically, people who were physically and/or sexually abused as kids are more often convicted of crimes related to pedophilia as adults. I'll fetch those stats if you'd like.
 
JimBenArm said:
The real question is not "did we kill Michael Jackson?", but "can Michael Jackson be killed?"

The answer is "yes" but it takes a shotgun blast to the head to be certain...
Click to expand...
.
NBC News yesterday announced that MJ can only die once.
I guess that's pretty official.
Ya know, I pity the guys on Comedy Central that have to watch ALL this crap and winnow out the gems such as the above.
 
ProbeX said:
Statistically, people who were physically and/or sexually abused as kids are more often convicted of crimes related to pedophilia as adults. I'll fetch those stats if you'd like.
Click to expand...

This is true. Please note that I said that.
There are also survivors who would rather kill themselves than hurt a child, who are disgusted by those who hurt children, and who feel they can't say they're survivors without someone suspecting them of that very thing. Thus, they get to be victims of pedophilia, in one way or another, for the rest of their lives.

It's not real fair, but no one promised us fairness in life, did they?

(and I'm not commenting on MJ with this. Not at all. I don't know what he did or didn't do, and I have no opinion.)
 
slingblade said:
There are also survivors who would rather kill themselves than hurt a child, who are disgusted by those who hurt children, and who feel they can't say they're survivors without someone suspecting them of that very thing. Thus, they get to be victims of pedophilia, in one way or another, for the rest of their lives.

It's not real fair, but no one promised us fairness in life, did they?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's true that many people who were victimized have the reflection and insight to actually take steps to prevent themselves from becoming predators ... or from making themselves victims all over again in adult life. But without the insight, there's real danger ...

Minimizing or denying certain forms of trauma can cause a person to repeat the act themselves. I think of the alcoholic father who swore as a kid he wouldn't become like his dad, who was an alcoholic. Or I think of the woman who never came to terms with being sexually abused as a girl and later became a prostitute.

And I agree w/you: these observations aren't meant as an indictment of Jackson. I have strong suspicions, but can't say he's certainly guilty.
 
Alright, I changed my mind.

In the last court case, the court was allowed to hear testimony from 5 previous victims. They are compelling and believable and you cannot say that they were doing it for a pay off scam.

So yeah, I guess he had a good side and my heart sank during the interview the Lou Farigno (sp?) but, sorry, I have to say that Jackson was some sort of monster because I believe those 5 accounts. THey seem too believable.

Now what does THIS tell us about our society?
 
ProbeX said:
Statistically, people who were physically and/or sexually abused as kids are more often convicted of crimes related to pedophilia as adults. I'll fetch those stats if you'd like.
Click to expand...


What ProbeX said. But surprisingly, the now old assumption that personal abuse often results in Pedopholia, seems to be wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#Causes

The cause or causes of pedophilia are not known.[15] The experience of sexual abuse as a child was previously thought to be a strong risk factor, but research does not show a causal relationship, as the vast majority of sexually abused children do not grow up to be adult offenders, nor do the majority of adult offenders report childhood sexual abuse. The US Government Accountability Office concluded ... [More]
Click to expand...
 
ProbeX said:
Yes, it's true that many people who were victimized have the reflection and insight to actually take steps to prevent themselves from becoming predators ...
Click to expand...

No, that is absolutely not at all what I said. It isn't about having to think about it, to decide, to reflect and use insight to make some choice about molesting children.

Is it your argument that pedophilia is a choice? When did you choose not to be a pedophile? Is it your argument that pedophilia is always a consequence of having been sexually assaulted as a child? As if it were a virus, contagious?

Some who were molested or raped as children don't ever have to take any steps not to become molesters. It is not true that everyone ever abused always develops a lust for kiddies, but that some are just better at hiding it or controlling it. Some who were so offended have absolutely no sexual desire for children. None. Nada. The idea is repulsive, disgusting, abhorrent, just as it is to many people who were never so abused.

I write this reply because of the use of the words "reflection," "insight," and "prevent". I am adamant that you understand that being molested is not a punched ticket on the Pedo Bear train.
 
Bill Thompson said:
Alright, I changed my mind.

In the last court case, the court was allowed to hear testimony from 5 previous victims. They are compelling and believable and you cannot say that they were doing it for a pay off scam.

So yeah, I guess he had a good side and my heart sank during the interview the Lou Farigno (sp?) but, sorry, I have to say that Jackson was some sort of monster because I believe those 5 accounts. THey seem too believable.

Now what does THIS tell us about our society?
Click to expand...

It tells me that I hope I never get put on trial for anything, for fear jurors may be like you. You seem to incline toward believing whatever viewpoint you most recently heard. Although doesn't the defense usually speak last? In which case I might want you on my jury after all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom