Didja Hear About Iran?

alfaniner said:
Well, according to the American media, apparently nothing is happening in Iran any more. But hey, did you know Michael Jackson died?
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that is pissing me of so extremly , really, its a freaking shame.
 
alfaniner said:
Well, according to the American media, apparently nothing is happening in Iran any more. But hey, did you know Michael Jackson died?
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The fact that the U.S. media switched gears on this so quickly has thoroughly disgusted me. Our media sucks. :mad:
 
The media is going to do what the media is going to do. They all dropped the ball at the beginning of this already, so I've been working with little to no faith in them anyway. In that, I'm completely unsurprised.

Before I go on, I thought it a good idea to post this Daily Show interview with Reza Aslan. Interestingly, Reza gives some great commentary, particularly where he points out that the end result of this is going to be a country similar to North Korea or similar to China, depending on how things turn out. While I know there is a bit of political commentary going on in the video, I'm posting this anyway because Reza's explanatory parts of the interview are very good.

Today, the action was relatively calm. Friday in Iran is similar to Sunday here in the US, particularly in the Bible Belt-- very little usually happens because most stuff is closed anyway. However, there are reports that people who have been arrested are being tortured with the goal of forcing confessions about a fictitious conspiracy to take control of the country. My guess is that this is being performed in order to build more bargaining power were the Assembly of Experts decide to challenge the Supreme Leader or ask for some type of compromise. Some have said Rafsanjani is making a public statement that Khamenei didn't order the vote fraud, but I wouldn't put too much stock in those reports just yet considering how much more counter-information is now circulating with Iran blaming the protesters for everything.

More on Neda: there is a video from Al Jazeera English (shown below) with an interview of the doctor who tried to treat Neda (BBC text article). The man now cannot re-enter Iran because of his statements, but he confirms personally that the shooter was a Basiji member. He also confirms Neda's family has not been able to mourn their daughter's death, which is a big deal especially in Iran.



Here is an interview with someone who supposedly helped to start the Revolutionary Guard, who was once a deputy prime minister, as well as a dissident in Iran who now lives in the US. He seems to be implying a military coup has been taking place in Iran-- basically, Ahmadinejad's regime is using the Revolutionary Guard and are seizing control of key elements in the country to turn it into a militarized regime. I think he's a bit heavy on the hyperbole, but it's fairly evident that there is a certain political element who are solidifying their power base, and the fact that Ahmadinejad has extreme support from the Basiji (to whom he used to belong) seems to confirm this radicalized, hard-line group is forcing their control over the country regardless of the will of the people. Sazegara, the expatriate the host (Scott Simon) is talking to, is trying to explain the wider framework at play here (like I posted earlier about the make-up of the government), but he's instead framing it from the 'other side' of the power struggle, talking about Ahmadinejad's and the IRG's actions and the likely motivations and goals. There's audio at the bottom of the article with the more full interview-- I suggest those who are interested listen to the audio.

Last video: this is said to be Iranians releasing green balloons in silent protest. People are hiding and people are trying to stay low-key right now. I expect the situation will flare back up again unless Khamenei comes down really hard and manages to crush the rest of the people getting info out, or if something cracks in the Ahmadinejad regime.

 
GreNME said:
The media is going to do what the media is going to do. They all dropped the ball at the beginning of this already, so I've been working with little to no faith in them anyway. In that, I'm completely unsurprised.

Before I go on, I thought it a good idea to post this Daily Show interview with Reza Aslan. Interestingly, Reza gives some great commentary, particularly where he points out that the end result of this is going to be a country similar to North Korea or similar to China, depending on how things turn out. While I know there is a bit of political commentary going on in the video, I'm posting this anyway because Reza's explanatory parts of the interview are very good.

Today, the action was relatively calm. Friday in Iran is similar to Sunday here in the US, particularly in the Bible Belt-- very little usually happens because most stuff is closed anyway. However, there are reports that people who have been arrested are being tortured with the goal of forcing confessions about a fictitious conspiracy to take control of the country. My guess is that this is being performed in order to build more bargaining power were the Assembly of Experts decide to challenge the Supreme Leader or ask for some type of compromise. Some have said Rafsanjani is making a public statement that Khamenei didn't order the vote fraud, but I wouldn't put too much stock in those reports just yet considering how much more counter-information is now circulating with Iran blaming the protesters for everything.

More on Neda: there is a video from Al Jazeera English (shown below) with an interview of the doctor who tried to treat Neda (BBC text article). The man now cannot re-enter Iran because of his statements, but he confirms personally that the shooter was a Basiji member. He also confirms Neda's family has not been able to mourn their daughter's death, which is a big deal especially in Iran.



Here is an interview with someone who supposedly helped to start the Revolutionary Guard, who was once a deputy prime minister, as well as a dissident in Iran who now lives in the US. He seems to be implying a military coup has been taking place in Iran-- basically, Ahmadinejad's regime is using the Revolutionary Guard and are seizing control of key elements in the country to turn it into a militarized regime. I think he's a bit heavy on the hyperbole, but it's fairly evident that there is a certain political element who are solidifying their power base, and the fact that Ahmadinejad has extreme support from the Basiji (to whom he used to belong) seems to confirm this radicalized, hard-line group is forcing their control over the country regardless of the will of the people. Sazegara, the expatriate the host (Scott Simon) is talking to, is trying to explain the wider framework at play here (like I posted earlier about the make-up of the government), but he's instead framing it from the 'other side' of the power struggle, talking about Ahmadinejad's and the IRG's actions and the likely motivations and goals. There's audio at the bottom of the article with the more full interview-- I suggest those who are interested listen to the audio.

Last video: this is said to be Iranians releasing green balloons in silent protest. People are hiding and people are trying to stay low-key right now. I expect the situation will flare back up again unless Khamenei comes down really hard and manages to crush the rest of the people getting info out, or if something cracks in the Ahmadinejad regime.

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He is not the only source who points out that the RGC is far more than a military organization. It began as a political organization outside of the military structure, and its pattern over the past three decades has been to infiltrate (KGB like?? Not sure if that's an apt analogy) itself into as many elements of the power structure as it can.

What this gent is telling us is that the RGC has been more successful than some foreign observers suspect, or, he's over selling.

Thanks for that link as well.

DR
 
Really? The Guard has really been growing out of being the Supreme Leader's enforcer corps? Well, that definitely puts things in a different perspective, particularly considering Ahmadinejad's history as a former civilian enforcer (Basij) and his part as a skull-cracker during the Revolution. If that is the case, then Khamenei has more to worry about than Rafsanjani, and the possibility of Iran turning into another North Korea like state is much higher.

I definitely hope he's over-selling. The Basij and IRGC outnumber the Army, as far as I know.
 
Funny thing: I missed this article by Reza Aslan earlier last week, and he says similar things to the guy on NPR (though a little softer).

A couple other interesting articles from The Economist:
It is far from over, and
The crisis in Iran: Is the dream already over?

A quote from the tweeting masses, care of Ayatollah Ahmed Khatami, previous Iranian president: "Anyone who takes up arms to fight with the people, they are worthy of execution." However, the twitter-ers in Iran are also saying Khatami has made comments on Iran TV condemning the protesters. No confirmation yet. Another thing that the tweets are saying: Mousavi and others got the call that Mousavi won the night of the election, but the next day the results were switched. Again, no confirmation.

ETA: Oh, and Iraqi Shia cleric Grand Ayatollah al Sistani referenced Surah 5 verse 32-- "Because of this, we decreed for the Children of Israel that anyone who murders any person who had not committed murder or horrendous crimes, it shall be as if he murdered all the people. And anyone who spares a life, it shall be as if he spared the lives of all the people. Our messengers went to them with clear proofs and revelations, but most of them, after all this, are still transgressing. " Was he referencing the Basiji murders? Hard to say, but likely (he seems to support Mousavi).
 
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Article that basically says what I did about demonstrators being tortured to try and elicit phony confessions. The article actually goes into detail about a few higher-profile demonstrators.

This article from EurasiaNet.org posits an additional leg to this power struggle being Ali Larijani. I'm not sure this would bode well for the Mousavi supporters, but I'm pretty sure that if it's true it further weakens the Ahmadi/Khamenei regime.

Also, for some more background to those interested, Christopher Hitchens wrote this article back in 2005, which shows that the dislike and distrust for the regime has been eroding for quite some time. To the content, a small quote from the article:
Christopher Hitchens said:
Despite the terrifying culling of its youth in the 1980s, Iran is once again a young country. Indeed, more than half of its population is under 25. The mullahs, in an effort to make up the war deficit, provided large material incentives for women to bear great numbers of children. The consequence of this is a vast layer of frustrated young people who generally detest the clerics. You might call it a baby-boomerang. I am thinking of Jamshid, a clever young hustler whom I part-employed as a driver and fixer. Bright but only partially educated, energetic but effectively unemployed, he had been made to waste a lot of his time on compulsory military service and was continuing to waste time until he could think of a way of quitting the country. "When I was a baby, my mother took me to have my head patted by Khomeini. My ****ing hair has been falling out ever since," he said. You want crack cocaine, hookers, pornography, hooch? This is the downside of the "as if" option. There are thousands of even younger Jamshids lining the polluted boulevards and intersections, trafficking in everything known to man and paying off the riffraff of the morals police. Everybody knows that the mullahs live in luxury, stash money overseas, deny themselves nothing, and indulge in the most blatant hypocrisy. Cynicism about the clergy is universal, but it is especially among the young that one encounters it. It's also among the young that one most often hears calls for American troops to arrive and bring goodies with them. Yet, after a while, this repeated note began to strike me as childish also. It's a confession of powerlessness, an avoidance of responsibility, a demand that change come from somewhere else.
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This is a fair assessment of the dislike for the rampant hypocrisy that many people in Iran see within the government and powerful clergy, but I'd caution to take the "calls for American troops" too literally here. As Hitchens points out, these are statements made out of frustration, feelings of powerlessness (at the time), and it could probably be argued an avoidance of responsibility. Without the self-determination for change, it makes no more sense for the US to go charging into Iran than it would be to go charging into China or Venezuela. The article doesn't much go into it, but there exists a strong undercurrent of nationalism and pride in the idea of Iran-- not necessarily the Islamic Republic of Iran, but instead including all of its rich history from being one of the world's larger centers of education at more than one point in history, to the nation being the heart of one of the largest and most powerful empires in history. Also, more recently, memories of the Western-backed Shah still run deep in many parts of the country, and those memories aren't always fond. The people in Iran may cheer for Mousavi, but Mousavi was part of the revolution that kicked out the Shah in the first place, and Mousavi himself isn't quick to forget it.

A video of a speech made in the Majlis (parliament) a few days following the election and after the protests started.



Best line: "Mr Mousavi those who stand against you can't even manage a bakery."

ETA: Maz Jobrani, an Iranian-American comedian (and a funny one), posted a link to a hip-hop group of friends called Revolution of the Mind, who wrote a song called "D.O.A. (Death of the Ayatollahs)" (with NSFW lyrics), which the group recorded and are offering as a free download for anyone who wants. I like it. It's got the same kind of raw aggression that I love about the older NWA songs. At the end of the song is a recording of the chants from crowds saying "Natarsid! Natarsid! Mah hameh bah ham hastim!" (Don't be afraid! Don't be afraid! We are all in this together!).
 
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For giggles, I took a bunch of images and video clips I've been collecting of these events, and put them to that hip-hop song I mentioned at the end of the previous post. I'm currently waiting on permission from the artists themselves to continue to keep this video up with their music, and if they refuse I'll be taking it down. The timing on some of the keyframes could be better, but this was quick-n-dirty.

 
The news from Iran today.

More people are being grabbed by the police (or the Basij), and Amnesty International confirmed on CNN that there were people being "disappeared" from homes and hospitals. Still being states is that the Basij are going from home to home in neighborhoods where people are on their roofs at night yelling "Allahu Ackbar" and marking the doors in a bizarro-Passover-like manner, likely for coming back to these homes later to take people away.

A supporter of Mousaviwas said to have appeared on Iranian state television and 'confessed' to the protests being a contrived conspiracy. The report states that the confession came off as insincere or wooden, making it obvious that they were being forced to read the statement. Considering how many people are being taken, this was expected as an eventuality that some people would crack. For an idea of what those being taken have to look forward to, this article gives an example of what students ten years ago got for demonstrating (if you're not going to read: it's bad, really bad). Ahmadinejad has warned that his next term is going to be even more hardline and that he plans on doing away with any remaining semblance of Western liberal democracy in Iran.

The Guardian Council asked each candidate to name representatives to take part in a recount of 10% of the votes in order to settle the matter. Mousavi has rejected this offer as not being sufficient since the whole election was a sham. The other two candidates supposedly have also not sent candidates as a result.

A number of women gathered in memory of Neda and to mourn the protesters who have died, and were subsequently attacked by Basij and policewomen, then dispersed. Tehran's district attorney has said he doesn't know how many people have been arrested, but that the number was very high. Some people, like one of Mousavi's staff, have also been getting their passports revoked or being forbidden from leaving the country. There are no definite details on what charges anyone is going to be charged with, but the best guess is that it will involve conspiracy against the government.

There are rumors of planning for a very large national strike coming up. Additionally, there are more rumors that the military leaders are having trouble deciding who to side with in the matter, primarily regarding what their role should be in these events. Many are looking toward Qom, the religious scholar capital of the nation, for signs of taking a lead one way or the other on the matter. Some are hoping that further protests will draw the clerics into open support for their cause (as many of them are already not pleased with Ahmadinejad).

It's been said that the former Supreme Leader Khomeini's surviving family have expressed some unofficial support for the protesters. There is a great deal of hope that at least Khomeini's grandson will openly and publicly support this, as it would add a great deal of credibility to the movement, as well as further undermining Khamenei's and Ahmandinejad's power base. Other Ayatollah's have stated publicly that the events have weakened the regime's influence among the Iranian people.

There are reportedly people gathering at a mosque tomorrow (today), though the indication is that this one is being permitted after requesting permission. Mousavi has issued a public statement for Iranians and people supporting what Iranians are doing to continue their protests.
 
The rally that was set to be held today was peaceful (though the Basij were on the edge of the gathering picking fights), right up until the very end-- at which point the security forces decided to shoot tear gas into the crowds to disperse those who were staying gathered. Some people tried to fight back, and were subsequently arrested. There are news sources now saying that this has been the largest political crackdown since the 1979 Revolution. Mousavi's campaign head, however, has apparently been released along with a few other reformists.

Iranian security forces arrested at least eight staff members at the British embassy today, all Iranians, accusing them of being complicit in the foreign agitation of the Iranian people. Britain and the EU have issued complaints against the Iranian government, adding that harming any diplomats would require a response from them. We'll see how this turns out, but Iranian state TV has said the workers were released.

While Khomeini's grandson has yet to make any public statement, others are starting to come out against Khamenei and Ahmadinejad. Ayatollah Javadi Amoli (prominent Islamic cleric and politician) spoke today about more separation of powers (link, Google Translate), including a separation of Mosque and State. Grand Ayatolla Ardebili, a former head of the judiciary, made a statement that the protesters had a right to be heard. Additionally, Rafsanjani finally spoke out today in direct opposition to Khamenei, saying that the protesters' complaints should be examined more fully and fairly. If Khamenei continues disregarding the arguments coming from Qom (center of Islamic scholarship in Iran), he's going to disregard himself right out of legitimacy and office. As a result of the growing opposition to his aggression against the protesters, Khamenei spoke today with less outward vitriol against the protesters, and has now switched to them being unwitting pawns of Western interlopers instead of accusing them of being in on the so-called conspiracy. Included in his diatribe against the West was Israel, who Khamenei accuses of fomenting the young people into these protests.

Ultra-conservative candidate Moshen Rezaee has reversed an earlier capitulation to the regime, and is now agreeing that a commission to look into the election results. This shouldn't be seen as a full reversal, since he's agreeing to look into 10% of the votes and not all of them. Since he likely didn't get enough votes to win, doing this does no political harm and can at least offer him credibility if the Ahmadi regime stays in power.

Basically: some protests are still happening, and people are still being arrested, but the forces against the Supreme Leader and Ahmadinejad are now coming from further up the political and religious food chain, where Khamenei would be committing political suicide trying to silence in the manner he's been doing to the citizens. This is a good thing for those hoping Khamenei loses.
 
There were rumors that Mousavi had been arrested, but those rumors are incorrect. Mousavi has updated his Facebook page to address the rumors.

A spokesperson for the government has publicly stated that no serious incidents have happened with regard to the protests, and that anyone claiming to have been beaten by sticks or anything else should take the issue up with the courts. As for the people who have been killed, the government is now only releasing bodies to people who agree to bury them quietly. This shows that the government is well aware of the danger in letting people mourn, since the cycle of mourning was one of the things that allowed the 1979 Revolution to gain and maintain so much steam against the Shah.

A Parliament member from Tabriz spoke in the parliament meeting yesterday about how it has been unfair that the public is only hearing one side of the dispute between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi. His speech was constantly squelched by pro-Ahmadinejad members through yelling and making a ruckus while he tried to finish.

After yesterday's gathering, the Ministry of the Interior has ordered that no more permits for protests or gathering be given to any group who may be supportive of Mousavi, and that any members of any group who supports him be arrested and charged if there is any suspicion of crime. Also, insurance companies in Iran are refusing to talk to Iranian customers who come to them about medical costs from being attacked or property damage from Basij forces.

Some higher-profile individuals have been arrested in connection with yesterday's rally/gathering, including Reza Ataraan, an actor and director. At least one journalist and another person representing the legal union for journalists were also arrested, so chances are that the government is trying to discourage any in-country reporting from Mousavi supporters' perspective. At least half of the people arrested yesterday from the British embassy are still detained and being held at an undisclosed location.

Reza Aslan, who I mentioned in a previous post, has another article up on the situation in Iran. He explains, much like I have here, that the protesters' movement is shifting from one on the streets to one being dealt with in political and religious circles, with clerics and politicians alike beginning to align themselves for or against Khamenei. Reza once again points out how a Khamenei victory in this could very well turn Iran into a military state similar in form to North Korea.

In lighter news, Iranian performer [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Madadian]Andy Madadian recorded a version of Ben E. King's Stand By Me, with a partial translation into Persian, along with the rock band Bon Jovi, to show solidarity with the people in Iran. While I'm definitely not a fan of Bon Jovi, I think that this was a pretty neat thing for them to do.



Oh, and that post I made a few days ago about money leaving Iran: apparently, that money belongs to businesses moving their money out of Iran during the instability. Another quotable quote that I think people will find pleasant news:
Aaron Klein, who has perhaps the deepest contacts within Palestinian terrorist organizations of any journalist in the world, made note Monday that the turmoil in Iran had caused the Iranian regime to miss its regularly scheduled subsitance payment to at least one group, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. As of Friday, the Iranian regime's regular terror stipend has still not arrived, preventing the Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist leadership from paying its henchmen.

This is what happens when the world's foremost state sponsor of terrorism meets with conflict of its own. As an Islamic Jihad source told Klein nearly a week ago, "If money is not sent one way or another, we may have to close some agencies and bureaus."
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Couldn't happen to a nicer set of fellas, as far as I'm concerned.
 
I just got some news about another Internet outlet from my Iranian friends...

http://fd10.150m.com/

They say to simply open this link in another window or tab and just leave it open. It appears to be a portal of some kind for various Iranian websites, and I gather the purpose is to serve as a proxy for Iranians wanting to get access to the Internet while foiling the security goons.

Any comments on this?
 
MattusMaximus said:
I just got some news about another Internet outlet from my Iranian friends...

http://fd10.150m.com/

They say to simply open this link in another window or tab and just leave it open. It appears to be a portal of some kind for various Iranian websites, and I gather the purpose is to serve as a proxy for Iranians wanting to get access to the Internet while foiling the security goons.

Any comments on this?
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its in Farsi or so
 
MattusMaximus said:
I just got some news about another Internet outlet from my Iranian friends...

http://fd10.150m.com/

They say to simply open this link in another window or tab and just leave it open. It appears to be a portal of some kind for various Iranian websites, and I gather the purpose is to serve as a proxy for Iranians wanting to get access to the Internet while foiling the security goons.

Any comments on this?
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I suggest against it. It seems to be a very low-fi attempt to DDOS (distributed denial-of-service) attack Iranian government websites. I suggest against it for two reasons: 1) not all Iranian sources need to be downed, and 2) those who know what they're doing have the lists of targets that could be useful to the Iranian people, and are not sharing this publicly. I could also add that pages like this could also very likely be a tactic by the Iranian government to mislead the general chaos of the internet, and help to block legitimate attempts to connect to the outside world.

Here's a couple of links for reading (not connected to the above internet issue):

Letter from Iran
'One-Stop Source' - huge list of Iran-related links having to do with the protests
 
alfaniner said:
Well, according to the American media, apparently nothing is happening in Iran any more. But hey, did you know Michael Jackson died?
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I've searched and searched and have yet to find any American Media declaration of "nothing happening in Iran any more." Which Channel or Newspaper broke that "nothing happening in Iran" story?

Dictator Cheney said:
that is pissing me of so extremly , really, its a freaking shame.
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So you are ticked off that something you find interesting has been supplanted by something everyone else finds more interesting? Well, you have the right to your emotions I suppose.
 
Travis has a good point, it's what more people are interested in. For better or for worse. We blame the media for changing coverage, but they do so because they perceive that a great many people want to know every stinking detail about MJ. I blame the masses, not the media. In an ideal world, the media would do a better job. But so much of media is driven by getting and keeping viewers.
 
Whiplash said:
Travis has a good point, it's what more people are interested in. For better or for worse. We blame the media for changing coverage, but they do so because they perceive that a great many people want to know every stinking detail about MJ. I blame the masses, not the media.
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Dunno. It's a chicken/egg situation; does the media have 24/7 MJ death coverage because people want it, or do people wind up wanting to hear every detail because they're being blasted with it constantly?

I'm not sure there's any real way to tell. However, it's easier to write nasty letters to CNN asking them to provide better (hell, any) coverage on Iran or Honduras than it is to write nasty letters to 300 million Americans asking them to give a **** about something important for a while.
 
That's a fair point Cleon, I'll grant. The media can set what people are interested in by their coverage. But I do believe that most of the masses of American's don't care about Iran, but do think MJ's death was a bigger deal. I don't agree with them however.

ETa: Maybe I should say, that I think that most Americans think that MJ's death is bigger news than Iran, not that a majority "don't care" about Iran.
 
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Travis said:
I've searched and searched and have yet to find any American Media declaration of "nothing happening in Iran any more." Which Channel or Newspaper broke that "nothing happening in Iran" story?



So you are ticked off that something you find interesting has been supplanted by something everyone else finds more interesting? Well, you have the right to your emotions I suppose.
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i dont care about normal TV stations, or MTV , i mean the News channels, that are supposed to bring news. And i dont blame only the news stations for it but also the people to seem to find it more important to have live coverage of whatever detail might come to light about MJ than knowing what is happening in Iran or Honduras or other important news.
sure the people have a right to have other interests and i just express my anger about it.
 
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