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Time travel and "The Terminator"

Thunder

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Supposedly, in the Terminator movies, the war against the Machines is led by John Connor, who's father came back through time to procreate him in the first place.

So basically the future is based on the future already happening. But this is not how time travel works..right?

If time travel did exist, and we went back in time and changed things, it would create an alternate time line, with the original time line moving forward as if nothing happened...right?

And you can't have a reality based on time travel having already happened..in the future..since the future has not happened yet..right?

Where is Doc Brown when you need him???

a286060fd8f01924
 
"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"
 
Given the nature of the Terminator movies, they harbor no restriction to reality. You can't make much sense of it, you have to disengage that part of your brain.
 
It's called "the willing suspension of disbelief" and applies to a lot of drama, fiction and other genres beyond SF.
I think Sam Coleridge coined the phase to describe poetry involving fantastic elements.
 
Then the alternate universe where you died or never existed splits off and you continue in this one, where you kill your grandmother and that one splits off and turns into a Turtledove alternate universe where the USSR rules the world.
Simple.
 
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parky76 said:
Supposedly, in the Terminator movies, the war against the Machines is led by John Connor, who's father came back through time to procreate him in the first place.

So basically the future is based on the future already happening. But this is not how time travel works..right?

If time travel did exist, and we went back in time and changed things, it would create an alternate time line, with the original time line moving forward as if nothing happened...right?

And you can't have a reality based on time travel having already happened..in the future..since the future has not happened yet..right?

Where is Doc Brown when you need him???

[qimg]http://thm-a01.yimg.com/image/a286060fd8f01924[/qimg]
Click to expand...
My bold.

That's your problem, right there.

The moment you find a real scientist who really knows how time travel really works, please start a thread in the Science subforum about his Nobel-winning, stupendously fascinating, paradigm-shifting work.

Meanwhile, I respectfully request that this thread, entirely about Hollywood fantasies regarding time travel, be moved to History, Literature, and the Arts, where it belongs.
 
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theprestige said:
Meanwhile, I respectfully request that this thread, entirely about Hollywood fantasies regarding time travel, be moved to History, Literature, and the Arts, where it belongs.
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A) If you think it needs moved, the report function is the proper tool to request that, and
2) Since it's related to a series of movies, I would think the "Movies, TV, . . ." forum would be more appropriate than "History, Literature, and the Arts".
 
theprestige said:
The moment you find a real scientist who really knows how time travel really works, please start a thread in the Science subforum about his Nobel-winning, stupendously fascinating, paradigm-shifting work.
Click to expand...
Nah, hes not built it yet
http://www.physorg.com/news63371210.html

Ronald Mallett, Professor at the University of Connecticut, has used Einstein’s equations to design a time machine with circulating laser beams. While his team is still looking for funding, he hopes to build and test the device in the next 10 years.
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:p
what, you didn't think real scientists were that open minded ?
 
As convoluted and grandfather-paradoxy as the movies were, the TV series was even more so.
All sorts of terminators and assorted humans whizzing past each other in time, so to speak.

One terminator missed his time-mark completely, ending up in the 20s-30s with no hope of accomplishing anything. He becomes a businessman....
 
parky76 said:
Supposedly, in the Terminator movies, the war against the Machines is led by John Connor, who's father came back through time to procreate him in the first place.

So basically the future is based on the future already happening. But this is not how time travel works..right?

If time travel did exist, and we went back in time and changed things, it would create an alternate time line, with the original time line moving forward as if nothing happened...right?

And you can't have a reality based on time travel having already happened..in the future..since the future has not happened yet..right?

Where is Doc Brown when you need him???

http://thm-a01.yimg.com/image/a286060fd8f01924
Click to expand...


It really depends on which theory of time (as literated by science fiction) you subscribe to The strictly linear theory that includes issues with the grandfather paradox, and used as a plot device in the Terminator films or Planet Of The Apes or the swithback theory as presented in films like Back To The Future or more recently Star Trek.

The second concept has given writers more plot oppotunities in recent times, and seems to be more flexible from a purely entertainment point of view
 
Jeff Corey said:
Then the alternate universe where you died or never existed splits off and you continue in this one, where you kill your grandmother and that one splits off and turns into a Turtledove alternate universe where the USSR rules the world.
Simple.
Click to expand...

Branching universes presents one gigantic problem that no one has ever gotten around: you need enough energy to create a brand new universe.

While this would present an elegant reason time travel is not possible, it seems very handwavy, and thus I'm inclined to dismiss it. Always seems much more likely to me that if time travel occurs it occurs within a single universe that does not branch (thus eliminating 2nd law difficulties, a host of retarded problems that arise with multiple universe spawning, and makes it much more internally consistent).
 
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GreyICE said:
While this would present an elegant reason time travel is not possible, it seems very handwavy, and thus I'm inclined to dismiss it. Always seems much more likely to me that if time travel occurs it occurs within a single universe that does not branch (thus eliminating 2nd law difficulties, a host of retarded problems that arise with multiple universe spawning, and makes it much more internally consistent).
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Time travel within one universe would cause equally severe difficulties, both with the laws of thermodynamics and every other law of physics (particularly conservation of energy).
 
GreyICE said:
Branching universes presents one gigantic problem that no one has ever gotten around: you need enough energy to create a brand new universe.
Click to expand...

Ah, but if there are multiple pre-big-bang universes floating around in whatever they float around in, maybe the relatively small amount of energy generated by time travel would be enough to start one of them off? Not sure how the time traveller would arrive in the right point of that universe though. :confused:
 
sol invictus said:
Time travel within one universe would cause equally severe difficulties, both with the laws of thermodynamics and every other law of physics (particularly conservation of energy).
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If we examine point A in the timeline before the time traveler arrives, and point B in the time line after the time traveler departs, we see that point A and point B have equal quantities of energy/mass. This is not so much a violation as a minor modification.

Now interesting stuff comes up if you postulate options that orphan energy/mass in a timeline, hence the many worlds interpretation, but I've always seen solving that problem with the creation of new universes as somewhat akin to solving the problem of a leaky pool with an artillery strike. And the fact that you'd STILL lose energy/mass from the original universe. It seems easier to postulate one hand where time travel simply results in modifications to our observed laws of physics based on the observed effects of time travel, and another where it's impossible because of our observed laws of physics.


Aitch said:
Ah, but if there are multiple pre-big-bang universes floating around in whatever they float around in, maybe the relatively small amount of energy generated by time travel would be enough to start one of them off? Not sure how the time traveller would arrive in the right point of that universe though. :confused:
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I'm not sure the usefulness of arriving at a universe 0.0001 seconds before a big bang, except to demonstrate how to become the deadest person in all of human history.
 
parky76 said:
Supposedly, in the Terminator movies, the war against the Machines is led by John Connor, who's father came back through time to procreate him in the first place.

So basically the future is based on the future already happening. But this is not how time travel works..right?

If time travel did exist, and we went back in time and changed things, it would create an alternate time line, with the original time line moving forward as if nothing happened...right?

And you can't have a reality based on time travel having already happened..in the future..since the future has not happened yet..right?

Where is Doc Brown when you need him???



[qimg]http://thm-a01.yimg.com/image/a286060fd8f01924[/qimg]
Click to expand...


Far better to read the original: All You Zombies by Robert A. Heinlein


You can be your own mother and father.:D
 
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