"Neda". Watched it. Not cool.

[Pardalis]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/27/iran.protests/index.html

"No mercy" as in "shoot to kill"?

Human Rights Watch, another group that has been monitoring the situation by interviewing people in Iran, said Friday that Iran's paramilitary Basij is carrying out brutal nighttime raids, destroying property in private homes and beating civilians in an attempt to stop nightly rooftop chants of "Allahu Akbar" (God is great).

I guess these are also CIA agents who did that, hey JihadJane?

Although I do agree with the last sentence, they really are annoying when they yell that stupid slogan.

 

[Richard Masters]

When she looked directly at the camera, it was because a friend was approaching, filming as he came.

I saw a version with German subtitles. The people around her are saying"Don't be afraid. Stay with us."

What is haunting about that is that the look on her face seemed to indicate that she knew it was over for her, and that she was ready to die. Her last expression seemed more one of sadness than of hatred or anger.

In a way, that makes the video all the more effective for the purpose of rallying the people around her cause.

There is some unintended symbolism in the video. I think it's a natural interpretation.

 

[leftysergeant]

Then you said to look how well that worked out for us in Eastern Europe, and while I don't think you were referencing Nazi Germany, it certainly brought that to mind, and reminded me that horrific things can spiral out of control in a country while we sit and wait. Given this Neda video, we can see the beginnings of that already.

I was thinking of how the revolution began in Poland in the 1980s, and how the Khomeni revolution started in Iran.

It all depends on the will of the p[eople, and cannot be imposed from outside. Our active intervention at this point would strengthen the will of those who still believe in the rule of the mullahs.

 

[GreyICE]

*snip - length*

I don't always agree with you, but this was beautiful. Nommed.

 

[Richard Masters]

I was thinking of how the revolution began in Poland in the 1980s, and how the Khomeni revolution started in Iran.

It all depends on the will of the p[eople, and cannot be imposed from outside. Our active intervention at this point would strengthen the will of those who still believe in the rule of the mullahs.

We can intervene constructively as long as we don't coercively impose our will. For example, Obama's criticism of the violence is not a threat. There's a world of difference between former president Bush threatening Saddam Hussein's life if he doesn't leave Iraq in 48 hours, versus president Obama appealing for an end to violence irrespective of who wins the election.

 

[Pardalis]

They are not messing with us

Now they have.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/28/iran.britain.arrests/index.html

Local staff members at the British Embassy in Tehran have been arrested

 

[NWO Sentryman]

No. We just don't want our gunboat diplomats dictating to another country how they shouild be run. That was why we applauded the overthrow of Batista and Somosa and why we condemn the overthrow of Mossadeg and Allende.

Change has to come from the people of a country or it just will not work.

By that logic, Hitler should have been allowed to remain in power, as he was elected.

As for Allende, he was a KGB Asset (Mitrokhin Archives), and the last thing the west wanted was another Cuba. And Allende Committed Suicide before he was overthrown. the West gave support to Pinochet, but did not orchestate it.

Mossadegh. That was inexcusable action over some oil fields, i agree.

Somoza was a scumbag, like Pinochet, suharto etc. But the Sandinistas were Kremlin backed.

The Cold war is more complicated than we think.

ETA: But back on topic. I feel that Leftysergeant is right because the last thing the west wants is to lose any more allies in the War on terror.

I also agree that bush was one of the most stupid presidents to enter the white house.

Neda should not be the justification for WW3.

That being said, i feel that there should be a UN monitored recount of the election, not a US-monitored, not an Iranian monitored, but a UN monitored election.

 

[Almo]

Kaiser Bill, ..., the Kim-queers...

Like Iran's Armorpajamajihad and his clique.

...

Somehow, your use of pejoratives in their names makes your position look less than credible. Sounds like schoolyard stuff.

I can think of at least one recent dictator for whom your hands-off policy also worked until outside intervention deposed him and his gang: Saddam Hussein. He's gone. Out of there. History. Archives. Toast. Thanks to George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and the American/British/New European militaries.

I can also think of one recent dictator's country that has been in turmoil since that dictator was forcibly removed by an external power. The second US action Iraq was a bad move. Bush Senior left Saddam there for a reason, which is all to visible now.

 

[leftysergeant]

Now they have.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/06/28/iran.britain.arrests/index.html

And they can only get away with that because they have what appears to be provocation by foreign powers meddling in their affairs.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

And they can only get away with that because they have what appears to be provocation by foreign powers meddling in their affairs.

I think that has something to do with the Anglo-American interference into Iran's internal affiars back in 1953.

 

[Marc39]

And they can only get away with that because they have what appears to be provocation by foreign powers meddling in their affairs.

A bit hypocritical of Iran to take such a posture given their history of meddling in Lebanon's affairs by funding Hizbullah, but, there is no honor among terrorists.

 

[Thunder]

A bit hypocritical of Iran to take such a posture given their history of meddling in Lebanon's affairs by funding Hizbullah, but, there is no honor among terrorists.

I don't think Iran is interested in accusations of hypocrisy, especially from the United States or Israel. Overthrowing Mosadegh was a bad move, especially from a country that supports democracy and freedom. Let alone the fact that we supported Iraq with chemical weapons during the Iraq-Iran war.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

I don't think Iran is interested in accusations of hypocrisy, especially from the United States or Israel. Overthrowing Mosadegh was a bad move, especially from a country that supports democracy and freedom. Let alone the fact that we supported Iraq with chemical weapons during the Iraq-Iran war.

I thought that was the Russians/Chinese/French (who gave saddam 82% of his hardware. No-one else got more than france (12%)

 

[Pardalis]

And they can only get away with that because they have what appears to be provocation by foreign powers meddling in their affairs.

They should be careful, countries have started wars for much less.

If they continue to arrest diplomats and embassy employees, we may at one point consider this acts of war.

 

[FarmallMTA]

Remind me... what is the name of the current Iraqi Dictator-for-Life?

And we went broke for nothing over-throwing him and are not the least bit safer because of it. Time will tell whether the gang that we installed wil really be that much better at protecting human rights, but it is doubtful that they will because the change was imposed against their will..

Remind me again... what is the name of the current Dictator-for-Life of Iraq? There isn't one, is there? The current leadership and Parliament of Iraq were elected in true democratic (not Democratic, mind you) fashion via fair, safe, and secret ballot by all the people of Iraq. Doing so ended terroristic state control of people and the economy. And that always scares and angers leftists, far rightists... those who hunger for power over others.

I agree with you in one respect, about time telling how it turns out. Whether the wonderful results gifted to Iraq by America and the Coalition, as led by George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Don Rumsfeld and later Robert Gates and Gen. Petraeus, will be properly nurtured by the defeatist, freedom scorning current American administration and Congress. I'm certainly with you on being skeptical that the project will be seen through to completion. The cut and run crowd, of which you seem to be an example, is aching for it to fail so you can point to "failure in Iraq" as a reason why not to put an end to internationally dangerous dictatorial chaos within a dysfunctional nation, destruction and strangulation of a people's potential, and absolute state control of the people and an economy through terror and repression.

Oh, and by the way, LeninSarge: the change in Iraq wasn't imposed against "their" will. It was imposed against the will of Saddam and his ultra-minority power base. There's a difference, you see. If it was as you said, then we'd have ordinary Iraqi's asking for Uday Hussein's return so that newlywed brides once again would be kidnapped and raped on their wedding nights. Only leftists (such as yourself?) seem to want that for Iraq. Not the Iraqis themselves.

How this pertains to Iran: it's time for "Operation AJAX II: The Second American Overthrow of Iranian Crazies."

 

[ponderingturtle]

Remind me again... what is the name of the current Dictator-for-Life of Iraq?

What is the process for selecting the ruling religious council?

 

[Beerina]

The brother is the one who died. The alleged plotters mistook Neda for the sister, but which raises the question how would the Iranian intelligence know about that?

And who would have guessed she'd have died in such a dramatic way, blood gushing out her pretty facial orifices, and that it would be caught so clearly on camera!

If'n only she'd been more like most of the other deaths. Rotten luck for the conspirators that a guy with a cell phone cam happened to be there. Rats!

 

[Beerina]

Well, it's some progress, I suppose. The US steering well clear ensures Assminerbijad's feeble attempts to link it to the US for domestic consumption are failing. Now he's resorted to "Neda's death is suspicious" as a trial balloon. Try to get in on the side of the outraged, I guess, and play "let's see where this investigation goes, omg!" and hope the people follow.

I wonder who the investigation will turn up as the guilty party? The same government thugs who murdered all the other people in the uprising so far? Or a special US agent!

 

[Pardalis]

I see the Iranian denialist machine is going full swing now. Ahmadinejad is calling the death "suspicious". Didn't he also call the Holocaust a "great deception"?

 

[dudalb]

I see the Iranian denialist machine is going full swing now. Ahmadinejad is calling the death "suspicious". Didn't he also call the Holocaust a "great deception"?

Counting the minutes until the "Useful Idiots" in the West start supporting Ahmandinejad's cospiracy theories.