Government run health care and government run schools

[Thunder]

We have government run elementary, junior, and high school. They are funded by tax dollars. No one HAS to send their children to government-run schools. They can always go to secular private schools or religious run schools.

Its all the choice of their parents. They can even home school. But all children MUST be educated.

This should be the same guide for government run health care. it should be an OPTION...not a mandate.

people can use private HMOs or government-run healthcare, or the companies mandated by their employer. ALL Americans should be mandated to have health care, but how they do it should be their choice. Government funded, corporate private HMOs, not-for profit HMOs, whatever, as long as they have coverage.

I hope this is the plan Congress comes up with.

 

[Upchurch]

We have government run elementary, junior, and high school. They are funded by tax dollars. No one HAS to send their children to government-run schools. They can always go to secular private schools or religious run schools.

As the product of public (i.e. government-run) schools, I can say that it works best when parents are actively involved in the education process. (Which is true of any school, really.)

Likewise, I think a public health care will work best when the people it effects are active in making sure it does so.

 

[Rolfe]

And that first post is different from how universal healthcare works everywhere^* else, exactly how?

I just don't understand American posters who assume that universal healthcare means that only the universal system will exist. Every night I watch cute ads on TV telling me how nice it is to go to a BUPA hospital, and how they have great health insurance plans I'd love like nothing on earth. And they have. I used to have one in my last job.

I watch the commercials and then I go do something else, because experience tells me that the NHS (free at point of need) is overwhelmingly likely to pick up the pieces if and when I fall to bits.

They have a perfectly good business and perfectly good profits, catering to people who like a private room, and elective procedures done at a time of their own convenience, and preferably not even to be in the same building as the Great Unwashed. But nobody has to go to BUPA or die, and most people don't bother with them.

^* Well, the bits of everywhere I'm passingly familiar with, anyway.

Rolfe.

 

[brodski]

And that first post is different from how universal healthcare works everywhere^* else, exactly how?

I just don't understand American posters who assume that universal healthcare means that only the universal system will exist. Every night I watch cute ads on TV telling me how nice it is to go to a BUPA hospital, and how they have great health insurance plans I'd love like nothing on earth. And they have. I used to have one in my last job.

I watch the commercials and then I go do something else, because experience tells me that the NHS (free at point of need) is overwhelmingly likely to pick up the pieces if and when I fall to bits.

They have a perfectly good business and perfectly good profits, catering to people who like a private room, and elective procedures done at a time of their own convenience, and preferably not even to be in the same building as the Great Unwashed. But nobody has to go to BUPA or die, and most people don't bother with them.

^* Well, the bits of everywhere I'm passingly familiar with, anyway.

Rolfe.

It is my understanding (which is probably flawed) that Canada has some pretty tight restriction on fully private healthcare, and (for obvious reasons) the Canadian system is the system which most US pundits look too when discussing "socialized medicine".

 

[thaiboxerken]

I think most of the conservative pundits describe a caricature of universal health care, where people bleeding to death are waiting days for emergency treatment, the doctors are minimum wage teenagers and there is no sanitation in the surgery suites.

 

[Rolfe]

It is my understanding (which is probably flawed) that Canada has some pretty tight restriction on fully private healthcare, and (for obvious reasons) the Canadian system is the system which most US pundits look too when discussing "socialized medicine".

Yeah, I thought there were exceptions. And I suppose the countries where the whole thing is based on an insurance-funded system work differently as well.

I just can't get my head round the idea that anyone would even dream of trying to impose a system like that on Americans. Practically, it has significant disadvantages, and it's so contrary to the American mindset I'd have thought it was a no-brainer.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

I think most of the conservative pundits describe a caricature of universal health care, where people bleeding to death are waiting days for emergency treatment, the doctors are minimum wage teenagers and there is no sanitation in the surgery suites.

Like this comment on an article about Obama's healthcare plans?

I am a small biz owner. I pay for my own Health insurance. I watch every penny and do not go an ER room for a cold. My husband was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer (we are in our 40's). I thank God everyday that I live here instead of a socialist country where his late stage cancer would not have been seen by a doctor for 6 months. He is cured. He would not have lived the 6 months waiting. I suggest all on this site grow up and start taking your health as your own responsibility NOT the GOVERNMENT'S. You will face a health issue, Let's hope that you won't have to wait (or be too old) to get help. I'll pray for all of you that this will not pass.

No, Madam. We do not have to wait six months to see a doctor if we have cancer. Or a burst appendix. Or Mexican flu. Or pleurisy. Or DVT. Or even a sprained ankle. Don't believe everything you read in the papers.

Rolfe.

 

[oldhat]

Republicans have been making the exact same stupid argument about universal healthcare for 50 years.

Literally.

What do they think, a bunch of Red Chinese are going to burst into your doctor's office and force you to sing the International?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Another silly couple of silly questions by the GOP Fox News people is "If there is government run healthcare, could that not encourage a business to drop private coverage for the cheaper government version? Where is my choice then?"

To which the answer is YES. However, most people currently don't have a choice as to whether their company carries health insurance or not, and companies have been known to change providers without the consent of their workers. Under the current situation, there is a choice, work for a company with health care or one without. I'd rather have a third choice of having healthcare regardless of the companies decision as to which provider they want.

 

[Thunder]

Another silly couple of silly questions by the GOP Fox News people is "If there is government run healthcare, could that not encourage a business to drop private coverage for the cheaper government version? Where is my choice then?"

has the existence of public schools driven secular private and religious schools out of business?

nope. and nor would government health care drive private insurers out of business. if anything, it would insure better competition for lower costs and higher quality. capitalism at its finest.

 

[Rolfe]

The very idea of having to rely on my employer to provide my healthcare coverage scares me witless. Especially when I appear to have bugger-all employment rights or security of employment. How many Americans are hanging on to dead-end jobs they hate because they need the healthcare coverage?

And having been an employer too, in my time, the idea of having to provide healthcare coverage for that mob and still keep the business solvent also scares me witless.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

has the existence of public schools driven secular private and religious schools out of business?

nope. and nor would government health care drive private insurers out of business. if anything, it would insure better competition for lower costs and higher quality. capitalism at its finest.

I don't think you two are disagreeing.

Rolfe.

 

[Holler Hoojer]

A few years back, I worked for a company that had plants in the US and one in Canada. In the US, we had BC/BS. In Canada, they had the national system. We visited back and forth a lot and, of course, sometimes discussed health care. They had a heck of a time getting elective surgery (stomach stapling, deviated septums (septa?), knee replacements, and so on) and fast care for cancer, heart attacks, etc. On the other hand, we had high premiums, a $2000 deductible, and limited drug choices. They did not seem to envy our system.

 

[Ziggurat]

We have government run elementary, junior, and high school. They are funded by tax dollars. No one HAS to send their children to government-run schools. They can always go to secular private schools or religious run schools.

Except that they're still paying for public schools, even if they aren't attending. And many parents can't afford to pay for both simultaneously, so for many parents there is no realistic choice other than government-run schools. Which is why voucher systems have become attractive for many lower-income parents.

This should be the same guide for government run health care. it should be an OPTION...not a mandate.

But it will be effectively a mandate if you have to pay for government healthcare even if you don't use it.

Oh, and even among the very poor, in fact maybe especially among the very poor, government-run education doesn't have a clear advantage over private education.

 

[oldhat]

On the other hand, we had high premiums, a $2000 deductible, and limited drug choices. They did not seem to envy our system.

They also can't cancel your policy if you ever happen to get an illness that's too expensive for them to turn a profit on.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The very idea of having to rely on my employer to provide my healthcare coverage scares me witless.

Me too, especially since I was just laid off. Also, some companies will, and have, terminated people with chronic illnesses because of health costs and such. Yes, it's illegal to do so, but they find ways to do it.

 

[Rolfe]

Except that they're still paying for public schools, even if they aren't attending. And many parents can't afford to pay for both simultaneously, so for many parents there is no realistic choice other than government-run schools. Which is why voucher systems have become attractive for many lower-income parents.

But it will be effectively a mandate if you have to pay for government healthcare even if you don't use it.

Oh, and even among the very poor, in fact maybe especially among the very poor, government-run education doesn't have a clear advantage over private education.

Um. But you're paying for government funded healthcare at the moment. Just like we are. The only difference is you can't access it. With the suggestion in the OP, you become free to access the system you are paying for. If you choose.

And it may be that private education is better. It may be that private medicine is better. In each case you can access that "better" if you want to and can pay for it. So what? The point is that the government funded system (not necessarily government-run for pity's sake) is sufficient.

That would leave a huge number of people massively better off than they are at the moment. Nobody has to pay for anything over and above the universal system, but if you want to, nobody's stopping you. That's how it works here.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

They also can't cancel your policy if you ever happen to get an illness that's too expensive for them to turn a profit on.

And nobody is counting up what's been spent on you in total in order to tell you that you've reached a limit so you're out on the street.

Rolfe.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Except that they're still paying for public schools, even if they aren't attending.

I'm paying for public schools, and I have no children! I should be able to opt out.

But it will be effectively a mandate if you have to pay for government healthcare even if you don't use it.

It sure is. I should also be able to opt out of paying taxes for the upkeep of the streets and traffic lights since I walk to work.

Oh, and even among the very poor, in fact maybe especially among the very poor, government-run education doesn't have a clear advantage over private education.

Isn't a poor education better than no education? Government-run education isn't about having an advantage over private education, it's about providing a minimal standard of education to all children. Likewise, I'd like to see all people have access to health care, not just people with jobs. I'd like a system where getting cancer doesn't bankrupt a person because their health insurance provider finds a way to wiggle out of paying.

 

[Dr Adequate]

But it will be effectively a mandate if you have to pay for government healthcare even if you don't use it.

Yeah, and you have to pay for the police even if you hire your own bodyguards, and you have to pay for federal highways even if you own a private jet.

So?