Coal Ship Boarded By GreenPeace

[DC]

If and when any government of private entities decide to do things LEGALLY to decrease coal use, I'm all for it.

Are you advocating this terroristic and criminal behavior?

terroristic lol, thats so laughable....

its such actions that make the news. its such actions that get the attention.
We humans are very ignorant to what we do to our planet. And sit back and wait until someone is doing something legally to change it is naive.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

terroristic lol, thats so laughable....

its such actions that make the news. its such actions that get the attention.
We humans are very ignorant to what we do to our planet. And sit back and wait until someone is doing something legally to change it is naive.

Not quite. You attempt to board my vessel, I could care less what your political agenda is. You are using unlawful action to impose your will upon a flagged vessel of a sovereign country. By all rights, any person attempting to board another vessel that is not doing so in the course of a security operation under UN mandate from a commissioned warship should be shot dead where he stands. Anything less than that should be considered a gift.

 

[DC]

Not quite. You attempt to board my vessel, I could care less what your political agenda is. You are using unlawful action to impose your will upon a flagged vessel of a sovereign country. By all rights, any person attempting to board another vessel that is not doing so in the course of a security operation under UN mandate from a commissioned warship should be shot dead where he stands. Anything less than that should be considered a gift.

if you people would care as much for Nature as you do for laws there would be no need for Greenpeace.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

if you people would care as much for Nature as you do for laws there would be no need for Greenpeace.

"You people?" What the hell is that supposed to mean?

I have no problem with Greenpeace increasing awareness of environmental concerns, so long as their operations don't spill over into piracy.

I place a high value on taking care of nature. I also eat meat and have no problem with hunting responsibly. But unless you've been a sailor on the high seas, it isn't likely you have an understanding of how wrong piracy is regardless of the motivation.

I had a good friend who once spent a week scrubbing animal blood off a missile launcher. It was deposited there by the "Ploughshares" group. Was that okay, in your estimation? Is it okay to imbed long metal pieces into trees so logging equipment fractures and seriously injures its operators? Is it alright to firebomb animal testing laboratories?

Where is the line drawn, in your vision of the way things should work? Everybody should be able to push their worldview on everybody else without pesky property laws to get in the way?

You're a little late to this party - most organized societies recognized this problem hundreds of years ago and adapted to provide solutions.

 

[MG1962]

MG1962, thanks for your reply. Thanks also for the Whale Wars elaboration. Sheesh, the captain...wouldn't want to be him next morning, walking down the corridor under the eyes of the rest of the crew...so long authority, eh?

So, you think the example I gave was "positive activism". Agreed there. Am I right if I then conclude you have no strict objection against all forms of Greenpeace (or other NGO) activism, but only specific (law breaking?) kinds of actions?

Thats is a pretty good summing up of how I feel. I dont know if it age or what, but something I have learned in life, you have to play the game. Politicans, business, the general public will react in a positive way, to positive action and awarness campaigns.

 

[lionking]

Not quite. You attempt to board my vessel, I could care less what your political agenda is. You are using unlawful action to impose your will upon a flagged vessel of a sovereign country. By all rights, any person attempting to board another vessel that is not doing so in the course of a security operation under UN mandate from a commissioned warship should be shot dead where he stands. Anything less than that should be considered a gift.

Spot on. This behaviour may appeal to their supporters, but will do nothing to influence the citizens who form the majority in a democracy.

 

[rjh01]

Not quite. You attempt to board my vessel, I could care less what your political agenda is. You are using unlawful action to impose your will upon a flagged vessel of a sovereign country. By all rights, any person attempting to board another vessel that is not doing so in the course of a security operation under UN mandate from a commissioned warship should be shot dead where he stands. Anything less than that should be considered a gift.

I wonder what would have happened if the captain of the ship killed one or more of the protesters on board the ship? Could he be tried for murder? If so where? The nationality of the ship or where it is? Or could the captain sue the protesters for being injured in the process?

 

[Drudgewire]

I wonder what would have happened if the captain of the ship killed one or more of the protesters on board the ship? Could he be tried for murder? If so where? The nationality of the ship or where it is? Or could the captain sue the protesters for being injured in the process?

It would become a REAL sticky situation if this passes.

 

[DC]

What a lame cop-out for your support of criminal behavior.

what i never supported the criminal practice of killing nature with coalplants.

 

[linusrichard]

Yes there is. I have no right to murder, enslave or steal another person for whatever reason. If that were the case, then can i kill you to use your body parts to save hundreds of lives? It's for the greater good...

Hey, I agree with you. I'm just saying that - if we stick to the hypothetical - it's not necessarily an easy question, and I'm not going to criticize the one who kills the two innocents to save the million innocents. But my point is this - if you're in that hypothetical, one result or the other is going to happen. If you choose not to kill, that's great, because, like you say, you have no right to murder, etc. But you still have chosen for that other million to die, even though you didn't kill them.

Your blood alone could improve the lives of many people, let alone the organs.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

How does it diminishes? They can just get an electric motor and charge with a solar panel. It still allows them to power their boat to get to the ship, and they have caused less damage to the environment.

Well, that's a fair point.

I don't think anyone should force their beliefs onto anybody, with the intent of changing their minds. Force and mind are opposites, morality ends where a gun begins.

We're not arguing about that, though.

 

[Travis]

what i never supported the criminal practice of killing nature with coalplants.

Please explain how you kill nature.


Cars put out harmful emissions too, are you in favor of blockading driveways and/or occupying privately owned vehicles to make sure they don't get driven anywhere?

Is it okay for someone to barge into your home and check your fridge to make sure you don't have non-vegan foods in there?

 

[RandFan]

Please explain how you kill nature.

Carlin on saving the planet.

 

[DC]

Please explain how you kill nature.


Cars put out harmful emissions too, are you in favor of blockading driveways and/or occupying privately owned vehicles to make sure they don't get driven anywhere?

Is it okay for someone to barge into your home and check your fridge to make sure you don't have non-vegan foods in there?

i dont have a car, the idea to drive around 1.5 tons of steel and plastic in form of a car just to move my 100 kilo of blood and fat is laughable.

a street blockade ? good idea, taking away provate owned cars, not so much, or going into someones house, not so much. But blocking the meet section in a shoppingcenter, why not.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

It would become a REAL sticky situation if this passes.

It should pass, and the captain of a vessel should be given legal authority to defend his vessel against unlawful boarders, up to and including the use of deadly force. Now to be honest, shooting them dead may not be the best course of action here. You know the Rainbow Warrior when you see it coming, they are very clearly marked, and it's unlikely it could be a pirate cell masquerading as environmentalists. In that case, 150psi firehose works wonders. The problem I see, is these yahoos will pull dangerous maneuvers that risk dozens of lives on the high seas with enormous Group III merchant vessels. It's ridiculous.

Greenpeace would be doing their movement a huge favor if they sold off the Rainbow Warrior and got out of the business of harassing shipping and fishing vessels. Problem is, radical movements of any persuasion attract radical and extreme people. Greenpeace surely has some ALF/ELF types on the rolls that would love nothing more than to play chicken with a huge merchant vessel and put dozens of lives at risk, all in the name of environmental agenda.

Navigating the high seas is tricky enough with calm seas and a clear sky. Not helping to have some jackass in a john boat cutting in and out of your path. Why more people haven't been hurt, I don't know.

 

[Drudgewire]

It should pass, and the captain of a vessel should be given legal authority to defend his vessel against unlawful boarders, up to and including the use of deadly force. Now to be honest, shooting them dead may not be the best course of action here. You know the Rainbow Warrior when you see it coming, they are very clearly marked, and it's unlikely it could be a pirate cell masquerading as environmentalists. In that case, 150psi firehose works wonders.

Man I love those water hoses.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Man I love those water hoses.

I got to "make it rain" on some *wogs during my last line-crossing ceremony. Shellbacking is much more fun once you and ol' Davy are cool. [/derail]




_{* A note to my UK/AUS friends: "WOG" in this context does not mean what you think. In the line-crossing tradition dating back to the days when ships were wood and men were iron, a "WOG" is any person who has never before crossed the equator. Short for "Polliwog."}

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Yes terrorism DC. Attempting to scare people with violence, sabotage and crime is terrorism no matter how you parse it.

I'd even throw my friend's experience on the USS Cape St. Verde during Fleet Week about 9 years ago into this ring.

Why else would somebody douse a missile launching system with animal blood if not to shock and terrorize the other people who were taking the ship tour that the 'Ploughshares' loons managed to sneak into?

I mean, there were kids there and everything. All of a sudden this guy jumps up on the VLS (vertical launching system made up of multiple 'cells'), screams an anti-violence rant, and then proceeds to cover them in animal blood.

You can bet that the captains of these vessels are terrorized when some nutjob is maneuvering dangerously close to his path.

 

[hayenmill]

Hey, I agree with you. I'm just saying that - if we stick to the hypothetical - it's not necessarily an easy question, and I'm not going to criticize the one who kills the two innocents to save the million innocents. But my point is this - if you're in that hypothetical, one result or the other is going to happen. If you choose not to kill, that's great, because, like you say, you have no right to murder, etc. But you still have chosen for that other million to die, even though you didn't kill them.

I know this will sound extremely selfish, but they were not my responsability

I have not chosen for them to die. Is the failure to save as life as immoral as murder? No. The consequence may be the same, but the CAUSE was a lot more different.

You could say it is wrong for me to be so selfish and to sacrifice a billion lives for my own self-interest. But the truth is its not me who is sacrificing them, and i have no claim on any other person's life, neither do I owe them anything.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

haha, but it was a fair point after all..

We're not arguing about that, though.

Actually we are. Greenpeace has used force to enter the ship (not actual physical force or threat, but by entering someone else's property without their consent).

 

[paximperium]

I'd even throw my friend's experience on the USS Cape St. Verde during Fleet Week about 9 years ago into this ring.

Why else would somebody douse a missile launching system with animal blood if not to shock and terrorize the other people who were taking the ship tour that the 'Ploughshares' loons managed to sneak into?

I mean, there were kids there and everything. All of a sudden this guy jumps up on the VLS (vertical launching system made up of multiple 'cells'), screams an anti-violence rant, and then proceeds to cover them in animal blood.

You can bet that the captains of these vessels are terrorized when some nutjob is maneuvering dangerously close to his path.

Well we obviously can obviously see how childish these extremists are. It sure will get people's attention but often not to whatever nonsense they are claiming.

If Greenpeace and other such groups kept to highlighting abuses, education, and show actual facts, I have little doubt that public opinion and with it, political might, will soon follow behind it. We can see the change for more Green behavior as times and generations change. The while Green Economy thing is a sign of such a change.

This childish and idiotic stunts are nothing more than counter-productive nonsense and drive away people who would've supported them.

 

[hayenmill]

Carlin on saving the planet.

George carlin FTW

"The Planet is fine...the PEOPLE are ****ed. Difference!"