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Jon Ronson on the Alpha Course (UK)

Worm

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Just a heads up to UK residents that Jon Ronson's documentary on his experiences of the Alpha Course is on this Sunday

Revelations: How To Find God
Sunday 28 June
7:00pm - 8:00pm
Channel 4

Jon has written about the Alpha Course before in a few places - it will be interesting to see how it comes across on TV.
 
Thanks for the plug. A number of noted skeptics, such as Neil Denny, Sid Rodrigues, Ariane Sherine and TAM London Tracy - the ABBA of skepticism in fact - have already seen it, so would be interested to get their views.

Jon
 
Thanks for the plug. A number of noted skeptics, such as Neil Denny, Sid Rodrigues, Ariane Sherine and TAM London Tracy - the ABBA of skepticism in fact - have already seen it, so would be interested to get their views.

Jon

Ha ha, am I the one with the beard? Actually, I think they all had beards.

I think we're more like the Spinal Tap of skepticism.

I have lots to say about the documentary, but I'll wait til after it's aired so I don't have to worry about spoilers. A lot of skeptics are ex-religious folk like me and I'm keen to find out how our response to the film differs to those who have always been agnostic/atheist/anti-theist.

All I'll say at this stage is it's definitely worth seeing! More from me after Sunday.

T
 
But if a paedophile said, 'Ever since I was a child I found myself attracted to children', we wouldn't say that that was normal, would we?"

haha Confessions of a teenage peodophile: I hope you won't judge me but a long time ago I used have lustful feelings for underage girls.
 
Thanks for the plug. A number of noted skeptics, such as Neil Denny, Sid Rodrigues, Ariane Sherine and TAM London Tracy - the ABBA of skepticism in fact - have already seen it, so would be interested to get their views.

Jon

Hey - are you the guy who did the documentary Hidden Rulers of the World? (I think that was what it was called.) If so - is that ever going to be on DVD in America? I only caught a few episodes when it was shown on TV and found it fascinating.
 
Hey - are you the guy who did the documentary Hidden Rulers of the World? (I think that was what it was called.) If so - is that ever going to be on DVD in America? I only caught a few episodes when it was shown on TV and found it fascinating.

I am that person. It was actually called Secret Rulers of the World. I heard vague rumblings of DVD plans, but just vague rumblings. Which will probably amount to nothing. The book version of the story - Them: Adventures with Extremists - is better than the series, though, with the exception of our Ruby Ridge film. I think that works better as a film, because it's so visceral and visually disturbing. But everything else works better in the book.

PS: Don't know about the Alpha film and America. Maybe someone can tape it?

Jon
 
Jon! Loved the Tottenham Ayatollah. Great doc. Was very interesting to see a young Anjem Choudary and Abu Izzadeen before they became the Omar Bakris of today's Britain.
 
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I am that person. It was actually called Secret Rulers of the World. I heard vague rumblings of DVD plans, but just vague rumblings. Which will probably amount to nothing. The book version of the story - Them: Adventures with Extremists - is better than the series, though, with the exception of our Ruby Ridge film. I think that works better as a film, because it's so visceral and visually disturbing. But everything else works better in the book.

PS: Don't know about the Alpha film and America. Maybe someone can tape it?

Jon

I loved Them as well as The Men Who Stare at Goats. Glad to see you here, Jon.
 
I am that person. It was actually called Secret Rulers of the World. I heard vague rumblings of DVD plans, but just vague rumblings. Which will probably amount to nothing. The book version of the story - Them: Adventures with Extremists - is better than the series, though, with the exception of our Ruby Ridge film. I think that works better as a film, because it's so visceral and visually disturbing. But everything else works better in the book.

PS: Don't know about the Alpha film and America. Maybe someone can tape it?

Jon

Oh great! Well - tell them to get to work on the DVD! Or at least get it re-broadcast on PBS! (That's where I originally saw it). I really enjoyed your footage and the narration.

I've thought about your conclusion (or maybe one of your conclusions - or maybe it wasn't your conclusion? At any rate - it's what I got out of your last episode). That is, that unlike how the conspiracys seem to always have a hidden someone in control and controlling things, that maybe, in fact, no one is in control at that level. Maybe it's too large for any single small group to control it all.

At any rate - welcome to JREF.
 
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Just a question though:

I'd never heard of the Alpha course until today. But looking into I fail to understand what the controversy is. Can someone elaborate?
 
Just a question though:

I'd never heard of the Alpha course until today. But looking into I fail to understand what the controversy is. Can someone elaborate?

I'm not sure there's a controversy, really. If there is, it's not covered in the documentary, or at least nothing you wouldn't find with any other recruiting religion. That's quite possibly the point - that something that is actually, in the end, quite a popular Christian recruitment tool is very much under the radar. I had assumed that Christianity struggled to recruit, and that numbers were dwindling in part because of church populations aging, but - from the church that Jon went to, at least, that doesn't particularly seem to be the case. A lot of young people, doing their thing for Jesus. Their thing, in the case of Alpha, being speaking in tongues, which is weird even by Christian standards, and certainly by mainstream British standards. We're terribly reticent about exaltation, dontcha know.

It's interesting because it's a soft-sell for Jesus, with free meals and friendly chat, right until the end. Then it becomes a full on dunking in the pool of his heavenly spooge (or whatever metaphor you want to use at 11.43pm).

But I'm wandering into spoiler territory and I said I wouldn't.

There is some controversy around Alpha's founder being homophobic, but I can't say that sort of thing surprises me. You rarely meet a Troo Bleever who doesn't think gays are going to hell.
 
As far as I'm concerned, the "controversy" is that Christians *seem* to be suckering people with something missing in their lives into a generalised feelgood "let's be all spiritual and learn about the world"-type course, which turns out to be all about Jeebus and how effing awesome he is.

Sneaky Christians!

OK, so it's a far cry from Scientology. And some of my best friends (well, one of them) is involved in it. But I still have reservations - hoping this programme can allay or reinforce them, as appropriate.
 
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Yes, having done Alpha twice now I can say that the only controversial things I found were Nicky Gumbel's personal views about people being gay (which I didn't include in the film because the views don't form part of the course, although they are in the article linked above, and are pretty dodgy) and the idea that - behind all the chocolate hob nobs and nice chats and generalised advertising, really this is just a recruitment drive for Jesus. I think the film does look at that.

Of course Alpha people wouldn't call the latter controversial. They don't deny that they're evangelical. It's just that they carefully disguise their intent, which is the success of the course, I'd say.

Anyway I hope people enjoy,

Jon

PS: Thanks for the above compliments. I know: Anjem Chowdary has really changed. My collaborator Saul said he's been on the Omar diet.
 
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From Agnostic to Christian.

For your information. First of a series showing on UK tv ch4 tonight. C4 have had full access to the workings of the Alpha course which aims to turn Agnostics to Christians.
Should be interesting. I couldn't link but here's some info from tv listings...

Author and filmmaker Jon Ronson asks, how do agnostics come to Christianity?
Increasingly, it's through Alpha, a course devised many years ago in a well-heeled church in London's Knightsbridge, but which now operates in tens of thousands of churches of all denominations, in universities, prisons and military bases across the world.
Over 11 million people worldwide have now attended an Alpha course. But what happens on it? And do agnostics really become Christians in such a short space of time?

The course is 8 weeks.
 
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My question would be, how do they get the agnostics to come to the course in the first place?
As I understand it from the (original?) newspaper article, the atheists and agnostics that go on the course have generally either been involved in religion at some point, or are uncertain and looking for meaning. There may be some that are there purely from curiosity, but I imagine they'd be in the minority. The course appears to use cultish (sic) techniques, involving a charismatic & deceptive leader, reinforcing acolytes, emotional stress, social reinforcement, etc., to maximally disturb the attendees' mental and emotional equilibrium, producing various responses from glossolalia to sensations of revelation and / or enlightenment. The sort of thing Derren Brown is so good at.
 
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I watched it tonight.

First: to answer Elizabeth I's question, The Alpha course is very very heavily promoted in this country: I get invitations to go to it through my door regularly. There are advertisments on buses and other places and it has been extensively reported becuase it has some success in recruitment. Traditional religion has been in decline here but the evangelicals are an exception no matter which denomination they are from (as a broad generalisation)

Apart from the high profile there is a clue in the title: they present as an intelligent and reasoned approach to god and religion and they aim at the "middle class". It is quite elitist really. But for this reason they do appeal to those who perhaps have lost faith because they have realised that much of what they have been taught is frankly impossible to believe: and who are looking for a more intellectually satisfying version of religion: you find the same kind of thing within catholicism: the bright kids get the jesuit version. Protestant churches have lacked that particular kind of hierarchy of expression so far as I can tell: though of course it exists in the higher echelons of the church.

Because of that pitch it will also appeal to those who are secure in their unbelief, and I imagine many will go along because they see it as a challenge.

Both groups are particularly vulnerable to this kind of programme, in my opinion. People who put a great deal of "faith" in reason and intelligence do not feel themselves vulnerable to deliberate emotional manipulation: they don't run away because they think they can handle it. But many simply do not have the tools

Other than that it works much like Amway, so far as I can tell, from the documentary. It uses those elements of "coercive persuasion" which are possible in the context of not having total control of the environment

Those who go along are placed in a small group of strangers: the groups are "led" by two people who are already christian and are part of the programme. They have a quite clear agenda and quite clear techniques. The rest are uncertain and have a variety of motivations.

In terms of the coercive persuasion model: the first strategy is to increase suggestibility: in a controlled environment that can go quite far but it is not so easy in this setting: they do what they can. they use lectures which set the tone but they mainly use seduction I think. It is very flattering to find a group of people who are so very interested in your views and who are so clearly thrilled to meet you (this is an element of "love bombing" which is very effective in the amway model): it is pleasant to share food and conversation with others. "Flirty fishing" is in the mix as well: bright shiny young women who serve the food and smile a lot. All of this predisposes the subject to value the intelligence and discrimination of those who run the course: we like those who like us and we listen to them

Social isolation ( a very important strategy in coercive persuasion) is not open to them directly: But they do have this advantage: in this country religion is not something much discussed. So reality checking outside the group is not as readily accessible as you might think. The documentary of course interfered with this particular aspect by virtue of being made: some participants certainly discussed the experience with Mr Ronson: but he was carefully non directive, so far as I could see.

A third strategy is to limit the acceptable topics of conversation. That is achieved by the nature of the course and they don't need to make rules about it: it is intrinsic to the exercise. As too is the introduction of a shared vocabulary and conceptual framework: at least within the course

In most coercive set ups there is a need to undermine the subject's sense of causality: they are required to re-evaluate their experience in the context of the persuaders' version of reality. This is done in two ways, so far as I can see: the members of the subject group do not form a group outside of the agenda.Their only bonds with each other are dictated by christianity, as presented by the alpha course. It is inevitable that they will share personal experience in the course of discussion. Their interpretation of that experience will be challenged in particular ways by the two christians who are leading the group: and will not be validated by the others, who are strangers to them and will not share their world view. In addition the nature of the conversation in each session is already framed by the introductory talk: a particular way of seeing things has already been primed and that is all they will share at least some of the time

Naturally the members of the group voice objections and questions: these have been heard before and so the "leaders" are equipped with plausible answers. Thus those with the agenda can take control of the discussion and re-frame experience more readily than the members can: and each can see intelligent people make arguments which they cannot sustain. As they are bright and presumably honest people this is apt to undermine what they previously believed to be true. And it is a matter of pride for sceptics that they will abandon a position they cannot defend. This is used against them, and very effectively. It is the way that the next strategy, undermining self confidence, can be implemented in an environment not fully controlled.

Two of the people in the documentary became very uncomfortable at a certain point and they left. We were not shown much about many of the participants as it focussed on a few, so I am not certain of the variety of responses. Those who left seemed to me to be those who recognised an emotional discomfort and who gave that sufficient weight that they did not have to justify it intellectually to themselves: others were unable to do that.

The breaking point for those who left seemed to be the "speaking in tongues" part. That seemed to me to be very interesting: it is the culmination of this process. It was done in a more controlled environment (though in practice this failed because of factors beyond the course's control) on a residential weekend. It was introduced after a session which clearly used the "increased suggestiblity" strategies almost to the point of hypnotic compliance: and then they attempted to "overload emotions". Effectively they invited people to take part in an exercise (speaking in tongues) which would embarrass or humiliate their normal selves. Those who participate in this kind of ritual surrender a part of their conception of themselves. It is what is called "breaking" and it means they must re-evaluate who they are. Cognitive dissonance will do the rest.

The two who left seemed to recognise this but did not articulate it well in the documentary.

Sorry to have made this very long post but I found the whole thing disgusting
 

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