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"Neda". Watched it. Not cool.

Beerina

Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
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Watched the Neda video on Live Leak. Don't know why. I hate watching death videos. US TV is scrubbed clean of them, but it wouldn't surprise me if European channels broadcast it.

Hopefully things will change over there. It appears to be a massive rallying cry.

It's described as she's shot in the head, but she's shot in the chest.



I stumbled onto it before I saw how the **** hit the fan because of it. I'm glad it did. The **** running that country needs to die painfully. Now.
 
Mhmm, I saw the clip on CNN-International. But I tend to agree, the more violence from the Governments side, the more outraged people will be ...
 
I am feeling a sense of foreboding right now, and hearing right-wingers grumbling that we should do something. Bad idea.

I still remember how the mullahs came to power. It looked an awful lot like this. People just finally got pissed off, soldiers started defecting, sick of shooting their neighbors, some of them started shooting their officers in the back.

Leave it alone and let them sort it out unless it spills outside their borders.Rarely does intervention overthrow a dictator and bring about the liberation of a people. The last time it happened was a year before I was born.

Look how well just sitting back and watching worked for us in Eastern Europe.

Stay the hell out of it, Senator McCain.
 
I've become addicted to Twitter in the past week. The first video appeared less than one hour after she was shot, the second video this morning. After the first one spread like wildfire, every other tweet asked for her name. Two hours later, the world knew who she was. She was buried today (yesterday, in Tehran time).

This is a little bit off the topic, but there was no better time to see the internet's role in all this. American news would never have shown that video, or just about any other that have come through Twitter. We certainly would not have heard about Neda within an hour of her death.

The complaints against Obama come through, also. But, there's a reason we did not elect another warmonger into the White House.
 
American news would never have shown that video, or just about any other that have come through Twitter. We certainly would not have heard about Neda within an hour of her death.


My stance is that showing graphic images actually helps to understand the reality. Everything else is useless distortion of facts and I have no Idea how censorship of those images helps children in any way. But this probably is a topic for itself.
 
I am feeling a sense of foreboding right now, and hearing right-wingers grumbling that we should do something. Bad idea.

I still remember how the mullahs came to power. It looked an awful lot like this. People just finally got pissed off, soldiers started defecting, sick of shooting their neighbors, some of them started shooting their officers in the back.

Leave it alone and let them sort it out unless it spills outside their borders.Rarely does intervention overthrow a dictator and bring about the liberation of a people. The last time it happened was a year before I was born.

Look how well just sitting back and watching worked for us in Eastern Europe.

Stay the hell out of it, Senator McCain.
I am with you on this score, Lefty. The Persians are a proud and ancient people and culture. They might be allowed to sort out their own internal mess if there is any courtesy left in the world.

Of course, there probably isn't.

DR
 
I am feeling a sense of foreboding right now, and hearing right-wingers grumbling that we should do something. Bad idea.

I've long been amused that the neocons today seem to be the starry-eyed idealists and the liberals are the realpolitique proponents. I guess the difference is that back then the overthrow of a dictatorship resulted in a new communist utopia; now that they are more likely to produce yet another messy capitalist democracy. It doesn't seem quite as interesting for the Left as it was when Pete Seeger penned his revision of How Can I Keep from Singing?

When tyrants tremble, sick with fear,
And hear their death-knell ringing,
When friends rejoice both far and near,
How can I keep from singing?
In prison cell and dungeon vile
Our thoughts to them are winging.
When friends by shame are undefiled,
How can I keep from singing?
 
She was such a beautiful young woman, and those bastards killed her.

Though it may sound sick to say so, I'm glad Neda is becoming a rallying cry for the revolution. I especially hope her death serves to rally the young women of Iran into fighting that much harder against the theocratic scum that runs Iran.
 
I've long been amused that the neocons today seem to be the starry-eyed idealists and the liberals are the realpolitique proponents. I guess the difference is that back then the overthrow of a dictatorship resulted in a new communist utopia; now that they are more likely to produce yet another messy capitalist democracy. It doesn't seem quite as interesting for the Left as it was when Pete Seeger penned his revision of How Can I Keep from Singing?
Speaking as a liberal, I would be just as pleased to see the dictatorship in Iran be replaced by messy capitalist democracy as I was when it happened in Eastern Europe.

And, then as now, I don't think that there's much that we can do about it.

What did you say had changed, remind me?
 
Watched the Neda video on Live Leak. Don't know why. I hate watching death videos. US TV is scrubbed clean of them, but it wouldn't surprise me if European channels broadcast it.
It was on CNN last night, but maybe we get the European version of CNN in Nevada. The place is practically France, after all.
 
Speaking as a liberal, I would be just as pleased to see the dictatorship in Iran be replaced by messy capitalist democracy as I was when it happened in Eastern Europe.

Any form of legitimate democracy would be better than the theocratic crap Iran has now. I think those who want to use what's happening in Iran now to hurl anti-left or anti-right barbs at each other need to get the frak off the thread.

And, then as now, I don't think that there's much that we can do about it.

True, but there are some things we can do. And, trust me, doing even that much has given hope & encouragement to the new Iranian revolution - my Iranian friends have said as much.

What did you say had changed, remind me?

Plenty has changed. In fact, Iran will never be the same again. It may take time, but the mullahs are finished.
 
It was on CNN last night, but maybe we get the European version of CNN in Nevada. The place is practically France, after all.

CNN.com has unedited video footage - via Twitter - of Neda's death. I'm glad they're not sugar-coating any of it. People need to see the sort of frakked up **** that happens in the name of ultimate religious authority.
 
Speaking as a liberal, I would be just as pleased to see the dictatorship in Iran be replaced by messy capitalist democracy as I was when it happened in Eastern Europe.

And, then as now, I don't think that there's much that we can do about it.

What did you say had changed, remind me?

That middle part about how there's not much we can do about it. I can tell you that the Left definitely did think there was something we could do about it back in the 1950s and 1960s.

I'm not trying to score a point here, but make one. Think of how the Republicans evolved from the party of the Union, to the party of State's Rights, or how the Democrats went from being the party of Segregation to the party of Affirmative Action.

It's this odd little dance like the famed mirror gag in Duck Soup, where there are two identical-looking people on each side of the supposed mirror (which is actually an empty hallway). The one guy moves his right hand and quickly the other guy moves the corresponding hand on his side, but the left one in his case because of the supposed mirror image.

Of course, isn't that part of what the parties do on every particular issue? Each side stakes out territory on anything controversial, with a weather eye to presenting the mirror argument to the other.

The highlight of the mirror gag comes when the two guys actually do a neat little semi-circle around each other, breaking the mirror illusion and yet maintaining it at the same time. This is what has happened on multiple issues like states' rights over the years.

On these sorts of foreign policy issues I do think that the example of Iraq has quite simply changed the default thinking of both the liberals and the conservatives, with the former now resigned to leaving dictators in place and the latter dreaming of better times for the downtrodden citizens of a corrupt regime.

And as a reminder, since I did have some neoconservative chops at one point, I've always felt that the neocons should have been the most suspicious of the whole Iraq incursion; one of the central tenets of neoconservatism is that government doesn't do big things well, and it's hard to imagine a bigger task. So right now I'm pretty much in your camp; there's not much we can do. But it seems strange to be left of the idealists.
 
Her name means "voice".... And it took this for it to be heard.
 
CNN.com has unedited video footage - via Twitter - of Neda's death. I'm glad they're not sugar-coating any of it. People need to see the sort of frakked up **** that happens in the name of ultimate religious authority.

They actually showed it on CNN last night uncensored. I was surprised.
 
I've long been amused that the neocons today seem to be the starry-eyed idealists and the liberals are the realpolitique proponents. I guess the difference is that back then the overthrow of a dictatorship resulted in a new communist utopia; now that they are more likely to produce yet another messy capitalist democracy.

No. We just don't want our gunboat diplomats dictating to another country how they shouild be run. That was why we applauded the overthrow of Batista and Somosa and why we condemn the overthrow of Mossadeg and Allende.

Change has to come from the people of a country or it just will not work.
 
The complaints against Obama come through, also. But, there's a reason we did not elect another warmonger into the White House.

He might have told you otherwise in order to get elected but Obama is also a warmonger. He has increased military spending and is continuing to pursue the previous incumbant's aggressive foreign policies in the Middle East and Central Asia with barely a blink of difference.
 
I'm more disturbed that I had no idea what you guys were talking about until Oliver posted the wikipedia article. :boggled:
 

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