Moderated Bigfoot- Anybody Seen one?

[kitakaze]

Vort,
That is a impressive and thoughtful argument. I actually find your theory does intrigue me and I will keep a open mind to your ideas about what happened to me. Can you do the same for me?

"Bigfoot is not a known, studied, verified or documented organism in any laboratory or scientific paper, beyond the purely speculative. There is no type specimen and no independently corroborated account of its existence.:"

Some of us are working on this problem, it would be nice if we had more help and less criticism.

I'm just getting caught up here but this is excellent and I'm glad I read this. I am proud that when Bigfoot enthusiasts talk about skeptics and the JREF saying that we're full of hatred and simply mock and scoff at people who think they might have seen Bigfoot I can point to this thread and show them they really don't know us at all.

 

[Blackdog]

Please shut up with your antics.

SHUT UP????? DO you kiss your mother with that mouth?

Again I'll post this old proverb for you,
`It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt'

Read that over and over and when you think you understand it read it again...that goes for all the lil' mak's.

 

[Blackdog]

Wow. Im a trying my best to contribute to every bf thread, and all i get is negative feedback from two people who have a preconception of me.

It isn't a preconception, you built your reputation all by yourself. I never even knew you or about you before you started posting here, how can I have any preconception about you?

 

[kitakaze]

You could be a total fantasist who actually believes the things he makes up,or just a liar,a hoaxer,an attention seeker.You could have experienced an hallucination.I have never met you,I know nothing about you.Any of the above could be true,or there could be other reasons.But you did not see a Bigfoot. I don't drive by,I park here quite a lot.Anyway,if you are not telling a campfire story,what are you doing? Do you have any concrete evidence?

No I have no evidence. We were only having a discussion. Well, I seem to have worn out my welcome. It happens a lot. It was nice talking to a few of you.

Thanks

John, you're a tougher guy than that and you absolutely have not worn out your welcome. Dafydd does not represent the whole forum but you have to understand that his perspective is valid. I'm not dafydd and I won't ever categorically state that you didn't see a giant wood ape. You could have. I don't know what you saw and despite what believer fanatics like Sweaty will tell you, noboody else knows either. There are oodles and oodles of noodles who will make claims about seeing Bigfoot, aliens, chupacabras, ghost, Jesus of Nazareth, etc, and dafydd's view is absolutely natural and to be expected. Yet surprisingly you are getting very little of it here.

I'm asking you not to bail when you see a bit of cynicism. You know how to use the ignore feature if you feel it's necessary. We are interested in discussing with you the experience and narrowing down the possibilities. It's interesting and I've been wanting to get into this with you for a while. I actually didn't expect to do it here. I thought we would probably discuss it at Melissa Hovey's board. Considering that they just tossed me out of there with laughable justification and not in accordance with their own rules, this is the only place I can discuss it with you. 'BTW, thank you for letting me know that even as an administrator of the SFB, you abstained from that unfortunate decision to have me taken out of discussions there. Anyway, this is not going to be like the experience you had at the BFF. You are in the company of reasonable, level-headed, and dispassionately interested people. I think xblade and dafydd's comment are the worst you'll get and they're not so very bad at all.

I'll be frank, John. I want to help you in whatever small way I can. People like Melissa say that we do nothing positive and do nothing to help. I think this is positive and helpful. I want you to get out from under a debilitating state. You can't even get in the woods without Billy Willard and that's just know way to live. That's a heavy irrational fear and the first step is to come to terms with it. Look again at all those pictures of Vancouver Island I posted:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4721277

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4748351&postcount=120

Not being able to step into places like that without Billy talking you through for fear of that creature in your mind sucks. I put it on the same level as not being able to have sex because of a past traumatic experience. There is a way for you to get out from under your fears and live like a free man again.

Stick around and maybe we can help you with that.

 

[kitakaze]

Please shut up with your antics.

SHUT UP????? DO you kiss your mother with that mouth?

Serenity now seems to be losing its potency.

Okey dokey. Time for the big guns...

Bollywood break!:

 

[kitakaze]

Wow. Im a trying my best to contribute to every bf thread, and all i get is negative feedback from two people who have a preconception of me.

It's because they see what are indicators that you haven't really abandoned Bigfoot belief:

You said the Eastern United States, Vort. The truth is that Bigfoot sightings, whether real or imaginary, tend to come more from the western part of the country.

I am fully aware of those sightings Vort. I just tend to think that Bigfoot Originated from the pacific northwest. It would seem to be a good hiding place, vaster and more remote than the east.

You may be holding onto to that belief and have modified it to one where you you think about Bigfoot as some very, very rare hominid that lives in secret valleys of Cascadia. You told me you have a romantic desire to believe things like Bigfoot, yeti, yeren, etc. That's your prerogative but it's effecting your arguments presented as those of a skeptic.

I've already shown you that 2/3 of sightings come from outside the PNW. Let's get back to John's experience.

 

[kitakaze]

Hey John.......I hope you change your mind, and stick around a while longer.

You haven't really 'worn out your welcome' here. The "skeptics" of Jref just have an extremely strong distaste for any and all evidence pertaining to Bigfoot....so, it's nothing personal.

Lies.

Reliable evidence, unambiguous images of Bigfoot = yum.

(A quick reminder.....kitakaze wrote:
"high quality evidence of significant weight to suggest Bigfoot may exist? No. Zilch. )

Sucks, hey? Try asking John that question. Wait, you're intellectual cowardice would prevent that from happening so I'll do it for you.

Hey, John. Quick question:

Do you think there is any high quality evidence of significant weight to suggest Bigfoot may exist? I am not talking about just for you but in general.

Thanks. You seem to have a far better grasp on reality than Sweaty does and I remembered this statement from SFB:

Sorry to dissapoint you KK, but I have not found any solid evidence of Bigfoot this year. Unless you count that I was present when other ABS members found possible tracks in April. I did hear and smell things that weekend in Salt Fork, but never had a visual, so it could have been anything.

In the past year I have been out in the field over 30 times in Virginia, Ohio, PA, and Washington. Nada, nothing. But I cant wait to get out there and try again.

I am just so thankful to be able to get out there in the woods.

Back to Sweaty:

But, if you do fly......thanks for answering some questions, and giving us Bigfoot proponents some more reason to think that Bigfoot may actually be out there!

Giving you more reason to believe in Bigfoot is like giving a terrier more reason to hump plush toys. It's going to happen no matter what.

 

[LTC8K6]

You can smell a skunk's spray a good distance and there's no doubt what you are smelling.

I'm thinking that everyone in the area should be commenting on the smell.

Now I'm talking to myself...

 

[Blackdog]

It's because they see what are indicators that you haven't really abandoned Bigfoot belief.

Please don't assume to speak for me. You're as much to blame as he is for his BS. You encouraged him. I think you looked at him as your pet project.

I don't care about his bigfoot belief one way or the other.
He and his friends are playing this board, like all the others he's posted on, for fools.
He(they) Google relevant topics and post them here whether they understand what they are saying or not.

How are his postings any better than any other goofball who posts on any other board?

Screw his age...when I was 20 I at least attempted to form a sentence and tried to think for myself.

 

[Archangel]

Archangel, if you're familiar with breezes, you might also explain how such an intense odor can have arrived at the recipient's nostrils from fifty yards -- half the length of an American football field -- away.

Yep.

The thing about breezes is they can be directional and they can also carry scents towards you as well as dissipating them once the source of the odour is gone.

This is easily testable if you'd like to do an experiment:

Get a fish from your local fishmonger and place it in a airtight container in your garage, leave it there for a few days.

The fish will start to rot, but no smell should escape as it's an airtight container.
Place a small electric fan behind the container.

Have a friend or family member stand by the fish (but not blocking the fan) and have you stand in the furthest corner away from the fish.

Have your friend open the container, they'll smell the aroma almost immediately whilst you wont smell anything.

Have your friend then turn the fan on to it's lowest setting, the aroma will then drift over to you quite quickly (alternatively for natural dispersion you can leave the fan off and it will still eventually drift over there).

Then to test the ability for scents to dissipate over time, remove the rotting fish and keep the fan on.

The smell will linger for a while and then disappear, although it's possible that you will continue to smell it for a while longer due to the natural oils in the fish clinging to your nostrils.

Now given that WGBH has also said the smell started before the creature was 50 yds away, I think the benefit of the doubt can be given to my experiment with regards to distance.

Once again, I don't believe that WGBH encountered Bigfoot (mainly because it doesn't exist) however that being said, jumping through increasingly ridiculous hoops to claim that his having a Hallucination is the cause of him smelling something unpleasant is the antithesis of Ockham's Razor.

In my opinion he is more likely to have smelled himself a bear, which can be pretty damn rank in my understanding, than it is that he hallucinated the smell.

We know smells exist, we know smells can dissipate from an area once the source is removed and we know that smells can linger in ones nostrils without lingering in the area itself, therefore the claim I responded to (specifically no one else smelled it therefore it does not exist) is not exactly a realistic answer.


To Kitikaze:
Your patience in dealing with MakayaTheTroll is amazing, I'm assuming you're not actually Mahatma Ghandi right?

 

[WGBH]

Lies.
Hey, John. Quick question:

Do you think there is any high quality evidence of significant weight to suggest Bigfoot may exist? I am not talking about just for you but in general.

That is a loaded question KK. The only "high quality" evidence that would suggest Bigfoot exists would be a type specimen. Alive or Dead. (I am no kill of course)

Now a clear, quality video or picture of a Squatch could possibly be enough to get the proper authorities involved in the research. This would be nice.

BTW, I will be around, but I do not think it is in my best interest to talk about my sighting anymore. People are starting to get wound up about it (pro and con). I would just like to be able to participate and contribute to this forum on the Bigfoot threads, not cause problems or arguments. I am here for my education and hopefully to get new research ideas. I am not here to fight.

 

[lightfire22000]

I saw a gigantic raccoon in the shadow of a wild turkey in my yard and I thought it was one animal for a second.

 

[William Parcher]

John, it's great to see you back. I honestly enjoy conversing with you and you have been so patient and cooperative with my umpteen questions.

Now, I know that mak has been acting strange in this thread but there is something you should know. You may want to talk to him because his uncle is suffering from what seems to be the same situation as you are. Mak talked about this early last year.



makaya325's Uncle saw a Bigfoot and has been traumatized ever since!

my uncle, a big game hunter who hunters moose, deer, and bear, was hunting with a friend in maine and had found footprints 17 inches long in imprinted as deep as bear footprints. he told me he followed the tracks with his hunting partner, and this went for at least a mile or 2,and he saw what appeared to be a "gorilla like animal which walked on 2 legs, and had a bad odor. my uncle wasnt sure what it was, and thats why he didnt shoot, since he had only 2 bullets left in his rifle. my uncle was afraid to talk about his sighting, and he being a "macho hunter" broke down in tears telling his sighting and felt if he tried to harm the animal, it would kill him. i never saw my uncle cry like this in my life, and my aunt tells me he doesnt want to talk about it again bc he fears being laughed at.

 

[WGBH]

John, it's great to see you back. I honestly enjoy conversing with you and you have been so patient and cooperative with my umpteen questions.
]

William, your questions were fine and If you want to talk more about it, feel free to PM them to me.

 

[Vortigern99]

It occurs to me that we were engaged in a polite and reasoned discussion, a fruitful exchange of ideas, before the thread was hijacked by personality clashes and unnecessary criticism. If we could give WGBH the benefit of the doubt, and treat him with respect as a sincere and truthful person, while using Sagan's so-called "Baloney Detection Kit" (not meant as a slight to the claimant) to analyze the claims being made, we might be able to make some ground here.

We were talking about the overwhelming odor WGBH associated with the animal he witnessed. I suggested that the odor, if objectively real, might have derived from some other unseen but nearby source, such as a refuse heap or decomposing carcass. Archangel seems to think the odor might have emanated from a bear, which I cannot reject as a reasonable possibility without having experienced the odor myself.

WGBH, if you're still willing to talk about your sighting in a respectful yet investigative environment, would you care to comment on these observations? Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

 

[LONGTABBER PE]

That is a loaded question KK. The only "high quality" evidence that would suggest Bigfoot exists would be a type specimen. Alive or Dead. (I am no kill of course)

Now a clear, quality video or picture of a Squatch could possibly be enough to get the proper authorities involved in the research. This would be nice.

BTW, I will be around, but I do not think it is in my best interest to talk about my sighting anymore. People are starting to get wound up about it (pro and con). I would just like to be able to participate and contribute to this forum on the Bigfoot threads, not cause problems or arguments. I am here for my education and hopefully to get new research ideas. I am not here to fight.

John, Dont let a few antagonists get to you- we value your contributions and honesty here

 

[kitakaze]

That is a loaded question KK. The only "high quality" evidence that would suggest Bigfoot exists would be a type specimen. Alive or Dead. (I am no kill of course)

Now a clear, quality video or picture of a Squatch could possibly be enough to get the proper authorities involved in the research. This would be nice.

It's not meant to be a loaded question. A loaded question is intellectually dishonest and to get you to say something you don't agree with. Your answer amounts to no and shows you are realistic. But what you fail to consider is that if there were matching dermals fro the same trackway, that would be not impossible to fake but under the right conditions, it could be profound. Also this can be said about separate DNA samples that are not human, not a known animal, but a match for each other. That would be great as well. I can think about a number of things, including unambiguous images of good provenance that can be reliable evidence.

BTW, I will be around, but I do not think it is in my best interest to talk about my sighting anymore. People are starting to get wound up about it (pro and con). I would just like to be able to participate and contribute to this forum on the Bigfoot threads, not cause problems or arguments. I am here for my education and hopefully to get new research ideas. I am not here to fight.

Really? I am asking you as a person that respects you and likes your contibutions to reconsider. Two people, xblade and dafydd, were cynical to you. Only two. I doubt they will continue and if they do I will ask politely for those reasonable people to stop. I can't make them stop. They're welcome to their perspectives but I don't think they'll be nasty to you.

It's far better than turtling and keeping that gripping fear you've held onto so long.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Just a few thoughts, from our local, open-minded skeptics....looking to discuss the evidence for Bigfoot......


kitakaze wrote:

Such an animal as Bigfoot being a large bipedal non-human primate is not impossible in any manner of the word. Totally fine.

Such an animal living, eating, pooping, humping, and dying across the NA continent with no type specimen is beyond ludicrous. Anybody who thinks otherwise needs a reality check.

kitakaze wrote:

Sightings can be interesting but they aren't reliable evidence.

If people kept going into the Carmannah Valley or Gifford Pinchot and seeing Bigfoots consistently there only that would be more interesting than what we have now.
You guys are talking about hundreds of sightings all over the continent every year thinking that's persuasive and you don't even realize you're making yourselves look like idiots.

kitz wrote:

Sweaty, when confronted by the absurdity of Bigfoot existing across North America ..... decides to remedy the situation by compounding the problem globally.

Drewbot wrote:

Thank you Sweaty.

You're point about hairy-beast-sightings extending throughout the entire world, is the second most damning factoid about the Bigfoot myth.

#1 There is no reliable evidence or proof of bigfoot's existence

#2 The fact that hairy beasts are reported by human beings in every forested area of the world, and rural areas, leads one to believe that Bigfoot is not a physical entity, but a psychological and/or neurological one.

Maybe it is a universally-human thing, to see the big hairy boogy man in non-urban places.

More recently...

Longtabber wrote:

John, Dont let a few antagonists get to you- we Value your contributions and honesty here

Vortigern wrote:

If we could give WGBH the benefit of the doubt, and treat him with respect as a sincere and truthful person, while using Sagan's so-called "Baloney Detection Kit" (not meant as a slight to the claimant) to analyze the claims being made, we might be able to make some ground here.

"Make some ground here"???......pardon me while I laugh.

 

[kitakaze]

Please don't assume to speak for me. You're as much to blame as he is for his BS. You encouraged him. I think you looked at him as your pet project.

*sigh* BD, sometimes I get the distinct impression you seek out conflict. I encouraged little mak absolutely - to think critically. I need no mini-me's but I do have a pet project - getting people to think realistically about Bigfoot. I like it. I find it mentally stimulating. I consider Vort's turnaround to be by far the best I've seen in a while. Little mak can work his kinks out or be a nuisance, it's his choice. I will only continue to address false claims and poor reasoning. I'm certainly not going to bicker with you over nothing.

Try not to read motivations in me that aren't there. You can guess but when I tell you staright what the deal is, please don't think I'm going to be dishonest with you.

I don't care about his bigfoot belief one way or the other.
He and his friends are playing this board, like all the others he's posted on, for fools.
He(they) Google relevant topics and post them here whether they understand what they are saying or not.

How are his postings any better than any other goofball who posts on any other board?

Screw his age...when I was 20 I at least attempted to form a sentence and tried to think for myself.

You still think makaya is multiple people. I don't. I know his writing and he sends me PM's asking me questions all the time. He romantically likes the idea od Bigfoot. He may grow out of it or he may continue to fool around on discussion boards. When he asks me a question or says something wrong I'll tell him what I think.

I don't need pets, dog. Concubines maybe. Not pets.

 

[kitakaze]

In my opinion he is more likely to have smelled himself a bear, which can be pretty damn rank in my understanding, than it is that he hallucinated the smell.

Sure, there's no reason why he couldn't have smelt an animal or plant he was unfamiliar with. Of course, there's always the answer that...

maybe he farted.

He just might have made a Dutch Oven in the deer stand and made himself nauseous.

To Kitikaze:
Your patience in dealing with MakayaTheTroll is amazing, I'm assuming you're not actually Mahatma Ghandi right?

Thanks, angel.

I'm not Ghandi but he has a great smile:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Portrait_Gandhi.jpg

I do have an Aum tattoo, though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Om.svg

It gives me good vibrations...

JK!