"Abortion Doctor" Murdered

At the risk of further inflaming Skeptigirl ;), and I apologize if it has already been posted, but Randall Terry had this to say.

Mr. Terry states: "We must not fear, we must not flinch, we must not retreat a single inch. George Tiller was a mass murderer, and we must continue to say so in his death just as we did in his life.

"The pro-life movement must not be browbeaten by Obama or the child-killers into surrendering our best rhetoric, actions, and images. We hold absolutely NO responsibility for his death.

"We must continue to call abortionists 'murderers' according to the teachings of the Church; we must continue to peacefully expose and protest them; and we must continue to show the bloody remains of children that died at the hands of Tiller and his kind."
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That isn't disowning the act. Including the word "peacefully" doesn't make this any less of a call to arms.

Twitters from the faithful anti women's-health-and-reproductive-rights groups were collected by Pam Spaulding.

Heres a few-

* Crap, I always forgot hashtags. I'm happy Tiller's dead. - Jennifer Waite, Selah, Washington
* UPDATE... Doctor George Tiller was aborted today in his 204th trimester - aren't paybacks a bitch - Punch
* oh HAPPY DAY! Tiller the baby killer is DEAD! - Samantha Pelch
* George Tiller the baby killer was shot dead this morning. God bless the gunmen who hopefully won't be caught. - readnwatchchris, Creedmor. NC
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I don't agree with those who use this to paint all of Christianity as being at fault, but do think that the anti reproductive rights groups do have a lot to answer for dehumanizing and demonizing their opponents, which directly leads to the death of those being attacked.

The real problem is that this was a professional who performed a needed and vital service, the abortion of severely deformed fetuses, for whom life would be a horrific experience for both the child and parent.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
I don't think you're going to find much evidence there. Christianity is way too decentralized for any such action to have any real meaning. Most of your typical "Christians" don't really belong to a "Christian group," whatever that is. James Dobson, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, and any other somewhat respected high-profile Christian personality could make a statement to that effect and it's highly likely that 80 percent of Christians in the U.S. wouldn't ever hear it, or care if they did.

You want to see more action on the part of Christians? Maybe they don't feel responsible since they didn't actually kill the doctor. The only thing they're guilty of is sharing the self-identity of "Christian." That means many different things to many different people.

And how exactly is any group supposed to take action to make sure that somebody doesn't misinterpret something? What do you think a pastor's sermon is? It's a lesson taken from his interpretation of scripture. Do you honestly expect him to make it absolutely clear to his parishoners that they are not to commit murder no matter what the justification may be? Having a correct moral compass is not the exclusive purview of any belief system, atheist or religious. It is the rule of law that dictates our moral compasses, and IMHO holding churches responsible to make sure their followers don't take anything out of context is ridiculous, unnecessary, and most likely illegal.
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So any preacher can say "Kill the *******" in his sermon every day in his church and not be responsible if someone acts upon it.
 
Robster said:
The real problem is that this was a professional who performed a needed and vital service, the abortion of severely deformed fetuses, for whom life would be a horrific experience for both the child and parent.
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One additional detail that I haven't seen in this thread (sorry if I've missed it) is that, according to one source, he was one of three doctors in the nation who performed this work (late term abortions). If true, this murderer didn't just murder an abortionist, which would be horrible enough. He murdered one third of the late term abortionists in America.
 
tsig said:
Do you resolve all your problems with guns?
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I don't HAVE guns. I don't think violence solves anything--it just promotes more violence. Are you denying that constantly cursing and insulting your opponent encourages the potential for violence? That it increases tensions?
 
sugarb said:
Okay, and I'm giving you at least two. The topic is a doctor who performed abortions being murdered by an anti-choice nutjob. I'm telling you that the best example of what you're asking is the people IN church, WITH the doctor. They obviously weren't teaching that kind of extremism in THAT church. Another example is the RCRC, which has many opportunities for people of faith to counter the "religious right" extremist element.

And I can think of another one quite easily off the top of my head, but it isn't necessarily about abortion. Many counter-protests have been organized and held across the country when Fred Phelps and/or his gang showed up. Counter protests by people of faith, church groups. One here locally, in fact, denouncing his kind of hate, and there have been many, many others.
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So you only denounce his kind of hate. All others are OK. Why does religion produce such divisions? If god loved us he would have spared us from himself.
 
tsig said:
So any preacher can say "Kill the *******" in his sermon every day in his church and not be responsible if someone acts upon it.
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Well, that's just the trouble, isn't it? Do you have some evidence that Christian ministers preach murder from the pulpit?
 
linusrichard said:
One additional detail that I haven't seen in this thread (sorry if I've missed it) is that, according to one source, he was one of three doctors in the nation who performed this work (late term abortions). If true, this murderer didn't just murder an abortionist, which would be horrible enough. He murdered one third of the late term abortionists in America.
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Thats right. Pro life in this case means pro suffering.
 
Interesting. The same people who loudly condemn Islam and Muslims for every act of terrorism are now whining about people painting Christians with a broad brush, that not all Christians are murderers, etc.

On the other side, you have people saying that messages of hate and veiled threats are coming from the pulpit, and given a wide hearing. Religious leaders that spread the rhetoric are presented as evidence, and the religious leaders that stand against it are ignored. Sounds very familiar.

Of course, in both cases, terrorists and murderous fanatics make up a tiny percentage, and it is bigotry to attribute the actions of a small group of zealots to the larger group.

What's really sad, to me, is that people don't see the hypocrisy. Within a week, you will see many who today stand here defending Christians against unreasonable smears making similar statements about Muslims.

Here's the reality:

Few Christians are murderous anti-abortion nutjobs.
Few Muslims are terrorists.
Few Jews are Kahanist zealots.

If you feel the need to attribute blame of an individual's actions to the (much) larger group as a whole, IMO you have left the realm of critical thinking.
 
tsig said:
So you only denounce his kind of hate. All others are OK. Why does religion produce such divisions? If god loved us he would have spared us from himself.
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Whatever. I've never said that any kind of hate is okay, and made note of the many churches and denominations that feel the same way and promote way more than some cheesy notion of "tolerance". Obviously it is not only religion that produces hate...but your kind of hate is okay, right? Of course.

Everything, no matter what it is that involves PEOPLE, produces divisions. Religion, politics, education, science--issues such as animal rights, abortion, civil rights, gun rights, censorship/decency laws...all of it. They all also produce extremists at either end. Either extreme starts sounding ridiculous after a while, dont you think? Well, I mean EXCEPT for YOUR extreme, of course.
 
Cleon said:
Interesting. The same people who loudly condemn Islam and Muslims for every act of terrorism are now whining about people painting Christians with a broad brush, that not all Christians are murderers, etc.

On the other side, you have people saying that messages of hate and veiled threats are coming from the pulpit, and given a wide hearing. Religious leaders that spread the rhetoric are presented as evidence, and the religious leaders that stand against it are ignored. Sounds very familiar.

Of course, in both cases, terrorists and murderous fanatics make up a tiny percentage, and it is bigotry to attribute the actions of a small group of zealots to the larger group.

What's really sad, to me, is that people don't see the hypocrisy. Within a week, you will see many who today stand here defending Christians against unreasonable smears making similar statements about Muslims.

Here's the reality:

Few Christians are murderous anti-abortion nutjobs.
Few Muslims are terrorists.
Few Jews are Kahanist zealots.

If you feel the need to attribute blame of an individual's actions to the (much) larger group as a whole, IMO you have left the realm of critical thinking.
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Thank you for saying that so well.
 
The real problem is that this was a professional who performed a needed and vital service, the abortion of severely deformed fetuses, for whom life would be a horrific experience for both the child and parent.
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That's always been one of my biggest fears! Not having that option is very frighting. I am very upset that this happened. :(
 
sugarb said:
I don't HAVE guns. I don't think violence solves anything--it just promotes more violence. Are you denying that constantly cursing and insulting your opponent encourages the potential for violence? That it increases tensions?
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The only ones I have seen "cursing and insulting" is Christians before the killing and now after.

Are your really that comfortable defending a murderer?
 
tsig said:
The only ones I have seen "cursing and insulting" is Christians before the killing and now after.

Are your really that comfortable defending a murderer?
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If you think I'm defending a murderer, you have some serious comprehension problems.
 
I look forward to all the people saying President Bush was a murderer acknowledging that they were inciting people to violence against him.
 
BPSCG said:
Well, that's just the trouble, isn't it? Do you have some evidence that Christian ministers preach murder from the pulpit?
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Well that's a real low bar that i didn't set but you apparently forgot that some of the biggest Christian ministers called hurricane Katrina a judgment of god.
 
sugarb said:
Whatever. I've never said that any kind of hate is okay, and made note of the many churches and denominations that feel the same way and promote way more than some cheesy notion of "tolerance". Obviously it is not only religion that produces hate...but your kind of hate is okay, right? Of course.

Everything, no matter what it is that involves PEOPLE, produces divisions. Religion, politics, education, science--issues such as animal rights, abortion, civil rights, gun rights, censorship/decency laws...all of it. They all also produce extremists at either end. Either extreme starts sounding ridiculous after a while, dont you think? Well, I mean EXCEPT for YOUR extreme, of course.
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You seem to be reading a lot more than I posted.
 
Cleon said:
Interesting. The same people who loudly condemn Islam and Muslims for every act of terrorism are now whining about people painting Christians with a broad brush, that not all Christians are murderers, etc.

On the other side, you have people saying that messages of hate and veiled threats are coming from the pulpit, and given a wide hearing. Religious leaders that spread the rhetoric are presented as evidence, and the religious leaders that stand against it are ignored. Sounds very familiar.

Of course, in both cases, terrorists and murderous fanatics make up a tiny percentage, and it is bigotry to attribute the actions of a small group of zealots to the larger group.

What's really sad, to me, is that people don't see the hypocrisy. Within a week, you will see many who today stand here defending Christians against unreasonable smears making similar statements about Muslims.

Here's the reality:

Few Christians are murderous anti-abortion nutjobs.
Few Muslims are terrorists.
Few Jews are Kahanist zealots.

If you feel the need to attribute blame of an individual's actions to the (much) larger group as a whole, IMO you have left the realm of critical thinking.
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Well said, Cleon.
 
Jerry Falwell on 9/11:

... The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen....​
 
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