"Abortion Doctor" Murdered

dudalb said:
This whole thread shows what I dislike about the "New Atheism": At times some of it's followers seem just a bigoted and close minded as the Religious Fundies they hate.
Click to expand...
Then make your case for why 'Christians' who don't agree with murdering abortion doctors also have no responsibility for people who misconstrue the anti-abortion message.
 
sugarb said:
So...may I ask what dwarfed your ability to reason? Certainly what you assert can be proven false, since all/most Christians don't roam around looking for people to murder. All Christians aren't even opposed to abortion. All Christians don't believe abortion is murder.

Or are the ones who don't murder doctors not really Christians? It would seem you've painted a lot of barns in your life. Why not try something requiring a smaller brush.
Click to expand...
According to this view, only those who pull the trigger are guilty. Those that encourage such murders are absolved. And those which don't agree are even more absolved.

Can you provide us some evidence of Christians taking any actions whatsoever to prevent the 'nutjobs' other than to say they, the Christians, don't agree? What have any of these people who don't agree done to prevent the 'nutjobs' from misinterpreting the Christian message?
 
skeptigirl said:
According to this view, only those who pull the trigger are guilty. Those that encourage such murders are absolved. And those which don't agree are even more absolved.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, are you referring to Christianity as a whole or this Operation Rescue group as "those that encourage such murders?"
 
LostAngeles said:
Until we find that it was some religious whackjob and not a disgruntled employee/business partner or someone who was doing his wife or someone whose wife he was doing or simply random, I'm going to hold off on grumbling about fundies above my normal level of grumbling about fundies.

At this point, it's up there with the guy who blamed the, "towelheads," for the OK City Bombing right after it happened.
Click to expand...


Tiller Murder Suspect Is Scott Roeder. Connected With Operation Rescue.
 
Last edited:
dudalb said:
Bad argument. It possible to think a Fetus has rights and oppose Abotion through political.peaceful means. And heaven knows that secular political movements have their share of violent wackjobs.
Click to expand...
Care to post any examples? I can't address a nebulous charge.
 
BPSCG said:
That's funny, I know lots of Christians, and I can't think of a single one of them who'd murder anyone for any reason. I guess I'm incredibly lucky.

One whacko kills an abortionist because he thinks it's God's will (pace, LostAngeles), and you project that onto all Christians.

I suppose when you read in the papers that a guy in the projects killed a pizza delivery guy, you conclude, "That's the coloreds for you. Utter ****ing sociopaths who will murder for a couple of bucks."
Click to expand...
False analogy.

Anti-abortion fanatics convince these 'nutjobs' that murdering doctors prevents the murder of 'babies'. The 'innocent' Christians say, "I don't agree with murdering doctors who perform abortions, therefore I am innocent." No action need be taken to prevent the message from being misconstrued. Not their problem. Not responsible, nope.
 
skeptigirl said:
According to this view, only those who pull the trigger are guilty. Those that encourage such murders are absolved. And those which don't agree are even more absolved.

Can you provide us some evidence of Christians taking any actions whatsoever to prevent the 'nutjobs' other than to say they, the Christians, don't agree? What have any of these people who don't agree done to prevent the 'nutjobs' from misinterpreting the Christian message?
Click to expand...

No, actually...I plainly called it domestic terrorism, because that is what it is. However, you seem to have a problem with people who identify themselves as Christians, which is strange considering you support a Christian politician (I guess it's his fault, too...he's guilty of murder by virtue of being a Christian).

This isn't a matter of "misinterpretation" and you're smart enough to know that, if you know anything about Christianity at all. Hello? The abortion doctor was in CHURCH, with CHRISTIANS, who obviously had no problem having fellowship with him. Are THEY guilty? In fact, is the DOCTOR guilty of suicide? Since HE was a Christian? I mean, come ON.
 
skepticalbeliever said:
If you want to see "Christians" condemn this, go to Operationrescue.org. When it returns, you will see that even the most conservative Christians abhor the abomination of shooting a person in church. You can see the same thing on the nrlc.org. Go to lifenews.com and see that all pro life groups condemn this murder.

I have posted about George Tiller extensively on this board. I saw this news go across the ticker on fox news and was stunned. That is the only word I can use to describe my reaction.

What happened in Ks. today was a tragedy. We live in a world where people don't respect life, we see late term abortionists abort viable babies, and we see hypocritical vigilantes kill in the name of protecting life. This shows that we need to build a culture that respects life in order to prevent this from happening in the future.
Click to expand...
Well then, you've done your 'duty'. Op Res. has made the official condemnation. You are all absolved. Good for you.

What a tragedy. No need to even think about what you might have done to prevent the 'nutjobs'. Not your problem. Nope. Not your problem. You condemned the act. You are absolved.
 
skeptigirl said:
Anti-abortion fanatics convince these 'nutjobs' that murdering doctors prevents the murder of 'babies'. The 'innocent' Christians say, "I don't agree with murdering doctors who perform abortions, therefore I am innocent." No action need be taken to prevent the message from being misconstrued. Not their problem. Not responsible, nope.
Click to expand...

I still don't see the causal link between so-called 'innocent' Christians and the pulling of the trigger. If any group needs to be held accountable it's this Operation Rescue organization, but I'm not even sure how you'd go about doing that unless you could prove that taking violent action and using deadly force against abortion doctors are part of its credo.

Out of curiosity, are you looking for the Christian community to condemn and completely disassociate from any anti-abortion groups? I'm pretty sure that will never happen.
 
skepticalbeliever said:
http://www.lifenews.com/state4188.html

It seems like the pro abortion group is acting like mean spirited demagogues. They're going to try to paint everybody who stood up to Tiller as a hater. They seem to forget that Tiller probably broke every law in the book in his years as a Dr.

And I did hate what Tiller did. There shouldn't be any shame in hating Tillers actions. He ignored the law and performed abortions that were not legal. He should have been put in jail. If his jury had convicted him he would be alive today.
Click to expand...
:rule10 You!

You prove my point. You don't give a :rule10 about life. You only care about the people you decide deserve to live. You read your Bible. But you forgot about all the admonitions that the decisions weren't up to you. No one convicted Tiller? Well you don't care because you think you have the right to decide.

:rule10 You!

You just proved my point. You think it is OK to egg the 'nutjobs' on. All you need do is retreat to your position, you didn't agree. You are absolved of all guilt.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
I still don't see the causal link between so-called 'innocent' Christians and the pulling of the trigger. If any group needs to be held accountable it's this Operation Rescue organization, but I'm not even sure how you'd go about doing that unless you could prove that taking violent action and using deadly force against abortion doctors are part of its credo.

Out of curiosity, are you looking for the Christian community to condemn and completely disassociate from any anti-abortion groups? I'm pretty sure that will never happen.
Click to expand...
I'm simply asking for evidence the Christian community has taken any action to prevent the antiabortion 'nutjobs' other than Christians absolving themselves of guilt by saying they don't agree?
 
Robster said:
It very much is domestic terrorism, but Obama bowed to the far right and withdrew the report (drawn up by the Bush administration) that said that far right extremists may use abortion as an excuse for violence.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see what you are talking about. How about a link?
 
skepticalbeliever said:
You have more faith in the american justice system than I do. Tiller is was just as "no guilty" of his crimes as OJ was. I think the jury just did a very bad job. Tiller was still under investigation by the medical boards for misconduct.
Click to expand...
God I hope you get banned from this board. You are disgusting.
 
skeptigirl said:
:rule10 You!

You prove my point. You don't give a :rule10 about life. You only care about the people you decide deserve to live. You read your Bible. But you forgot about all the admonitions that the decisions weren't up to you. No one convicted Tiller? Well you don't care because you think you have the right to decide.

:rule10 You!

You just proved my point. You think it is OK to egg the 'nutjobs' on. All you need do is retreat to your position, you didn't agree. You are absolved of all guilt.
Click to expand...


Um...I personally think you need to calm down, because while you may not realize this (and I understand this is an emotional issue), those kinds of attacks "egg on" the anti-abortion radicals, too. Screaming profanities and hurling insults only makes people hold tighter to positions. You won't change any minds that way.

In fact, things like that could probably encourage a nutjob to pick up a gun and do something stupid.
 
skeptigirl said:
I'm simply asking for evidence the Christian community has taken any action to prevent the antiabortion 'nutjobs' other than Christians absolving themselves of guilt by saying they don't agree?
Click to expand...

The "Christian community" is many separate denominations. Even if the Southern Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Roman Catholics, Disciples of Christ and every other denomination held a huge press conference and publicly condemned murdering people in the name of God, people like the shooter here and Eric Rudolph will still find homes and places to nuture their extremism, like a breakaway LDS sect that doesn't recognize anything but their own interpretations of what they think the Bible is telling them to do.

I agree with you in that more proactive action on the part of the Christian mainstream to try to avoid these things in the future would be a fantastic start. But Christendom in the U.S. doesn't have a central face or spokesperson per se, does it? How would these even be accomplished? You couldn't mandate the churches to do it at the organizational level - that would be unconstitutional.

The sad reality, as I'm sure were both aware, is that many Christians are most likely cheering the doctor's death silently.
 
Donal said:
Not primarily. Tiller himself was the target to prevent his actions. An assassination is not necessarily terrorism.

Terrorism more or less targets random people to intimidate a government.

That said, I oppose abortion on moral grounds and I also think this was wrong. The shooter should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and leaders of the anti-abortion movement should come out and condemn the act.
Click to expand...
Terrorism is the use of terror to get other people to comply with your sick desires. This was clearly an act of terrorism. The goal is to make other doctors afraid to perform abortions.
 
skeptigirl said:
Terrorism is the use of terror to get other people to comply with your sick desires. This was clearly an act of terrorism. The goal is to make other doctors afraid to perform abortions.
Click to expand...

Definitely. I'd like to see this be treated as such, especially where organizations are involved. Perhaps, we can soon hope, it will be.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
The "Christian community" is many separate denominations. Even if the Southern Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Roman Catholics, Disciples of Christ and every other denomination held a huge press conference and publicly condemned murdering people in the name of God, people like the shooter here and Eric Rudolph will still find homes and places to nuture their extremism, like a breakaway LDS sect that doesn't recognize anything but their own interpretations of what they think the Bible is telling them to do.

I agree with you in that more proactive action on the part of the Christian mainstream to try to avoid these things in the future would be a fantastic start. But Christendom in the U.S. doesn't have a central face or spokesperson per se, does it? How would these even be accomplished? You couldn't mandate the churches to do it at the organizational level - that would be unconstitutional.

The sad reality, as I'm sure were both aware, is that many Christians are most likely cheering the doctor's death silently.
Click to expand...
I merely asked for some examples of Christians' actions to prevent these 'nutjobs' from misconstruing the anti-abortion message.

I have the same concern about the Muslim community. Clearly there are many Christians and Muslims that don't agree with the actions of the extremists among them. But other than voicing disagreement, what are they actually doing to prevent the 'nutjobs' from acting on misconstrued religious messages?
 
Arus808 said:
beyond the argument of in favor of abortion or not, the situation at hand is that a doctor was murdered, shot dead for his business even if his religion disagrees with what he does.

For whatever reason, the person responsible is the PERSON responsible, regardless of his beliefs on abortion. HE took a life, and that is murder.


PLEASE leave the abortion quibbles out of it, unless it has to do with the doctor and the person who killed him (ex the shooter's wife got a late term abortion without his permission and he went apecrazy)


as it stand, no one knows who was responsible, and the anti-choice and pro-choice side will have their fights in the public as always, forgetting that a doctor was just killed.
Click to expand...
The courts have convicted more than one person for inciting another to act. Are you absolving everyone who promotes the anti-abortion message from responsibility for anyone else who acts on that message and murders a doctor or bombs a gyn clinic?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom