"Abortion Doctor" Murdered

sugarb said:
I have to agree. It is intimidation through violence.
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I agree as well. It will be very interesting to see if some recent terrorism legislation is brought to bear on this case. Or how about some aspects of the RICO statues?

I predict this is going to get much bigger than simply murder.
 
sugarb said:
Well, now hang on a second. Do people who oppose the death penalty spring convicts from death row? And if they don't, are their beliefs "baloney"? Are the only people who really believe in freedom the people who throw themselves in front of tanks? In other words, if you think human rights are worth dying for, but you haven't done anything to risk your own life, are you full of "baloney"? Do people who support assisted suicide only really believe their "baloney" if they find a few people to help die? I mean, think that through for a minute.
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I oppose the death penalty, but I don't consider it murder. It's lawful killing after a trial and a conviction. There's also the fact that there are as many executions in an average year as there are abortions in an average... what? Half-day? Hour? I'm not sure the numbers.

The assisted suicide one doesn't work for obvious reasons.

I mean, ask yourself what you would do if you found yourself an ordinary German in Nazi Germany. Just be cool, act like nothing's wrong? Maybe have some signs made up?

ETA: Or if you don't like that, go back to post #36 and answer that question.
 
beyond the argument of in favor of abortion or not, the situation at hand is that a doctor was murdered, shot dead for his business even if his religion disagrees with what he does.

For whatever reason, the person responsible is the PERSON responsible, regardless of his beliefs on abortion. HE took a life, and that is murder.


PLEASE leave the abortion quibbles out of it, unless it has to do with the doctor and the person who killed him (ex the shooter's wife got a late term abortion without his permission and he went apecrazy)


as it stand, no one knows who was responsible, and the anti-choice and pro-choice side will have their fights in the public as always, forgetting that a doctor was just killed.
 
This appears to be the first staged event of the Obama administration:

1) how do the cops know it was a lone nut, if the gunman was not captured?

2) how did the gunman get away?

3) why was another "suspect" arrested 170 miles away, if the gunaman acted alone?

This event has huge political overtones. Most likely, it was staged to smear anti-abortion people.

Full Disclosure - I favor legal abortions, as long as tax dollars are not used to perform them.
 
dudalb said:
Thanks for proving my point about how an atheiest/seclurists can be just as close minded and bigoted as a religious fundy.
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To be equally close-minded and bigoted wouldn't atheists have to go around shooting people who disagreed with them?
 
Galileo said:
This appears to be the first staged event of the Obama administration:

1) how do the cops know it was a lone nut, if the gunman was not captured?

2) how did the gunman get away?

3) why was another "suspect" arrested 170 miles away, if the gunaman acted alone?

This event has huge political overtones. Most likely, it was staged to smear anti-abortion people.

Full Disclosure - I favor legal abortions, as long as tax dollars are not used to perform them.
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:boggled:

Poe?
 
Galileo said:
This appears to be the first staged event of the Obama administration:

1) how do the cops know it was a lone nut, if the gunman was not captured?

2) how did the gunman get away?

3) why was another "suspect" arrested 170 miles away, if the gunaman acted alone?

This event has huge political overtones. Most likely, it was staged to smear anti-abortion people.

Full Disclosure - I favor legal abortions, as long as tax dollars are not used to perform them.
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Can you give me an example of something the government did that ISN'T an evil conspiracy?

That question is not rhetorical.
 
The religious belief that abortion is murder is responsible for this. Without this belief, the guy would not have shot the doctor. Religion is to blame here. Sure, there are plenty of religious people that don't go around shooting doctors, even though they think abortion is wrong, but those religious people just aren't as faithful as this shooter. People talk about religious fanaticism and extremism as being dangerous, but these people are merely more religious than the rest. It's the religions that contains such poor ideas and values. I am happy to live in a modern society where most people just don't take their religions quite as serious as they used to.

In short, Christianity is to blame here.
 
linusrichard said:
I oppose the death penalty, but I don't consider it murder. It's lawful killing after a trial and a conviction. There's also the fact that there are as many executions in an average year as there are abortions in an average... what? Half-day? Hour? I'm not sure the numbers.

The assisted suicide one doesn't work for obvious reasons.

I mean, ask yourself what you would do if you found yourself an ordinary German in Nazi Germany. Just be cool, act like nothing's wrong? Maybe have some signs made up?

ETA: Or if you don't like that, go back to post #36 and answer that question.
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But I already did answer it. One doesn't uphold a moral position by being a hypocrite. Let me try again.

Let me go back to those who oppose the death penalty, to compare them with those who oppose abortion. BOTH are legalized killing (the abortion debate boils down to WHAT is being killed--a fetus or a person, but at any rate, after judicial consideration, it was made legal). Those who oppose abortion call it murder. Those who oppose the death penalty apparently also consider it murder if they're saying it is wrongful killing. (Ironically, not many people oppose both--yet each debate brings the value of life into question. I guess it depends on if a person is "good enough" or "real enough" to live, but whatever...)

According to you, for a person to "really believe" abortion is murder, the obvious path for them to take would be killing doctors who perform abortions, right? To prevent more murders.

Well, then also you must believe that for anyone to really believe capital punishment is murder, they must do one of two things: kill executioners or spring inmates on death row.

Because people who simply protest OBVIOUSLY don't REALLY believe what they're saying. According to you.

You sincerely don't see how bizarre it is to say that anyone who really believes abortion is murder should murder doctors who perform abortions in order to prevent more murders?

The amount of "murders" doesn't matter--so there are more abortions than executions, so what? There are probably more abortions than there would be people killed by that guy in the mall you talked about being allowed to shoot random people, too. The point isn't the numbers, the point is the belief that something LEGAL should be ILLEGAL, and what you say a person SHOULD be willing to do to prove they really think it's wrong.

It is a messed up notion. Or else I am totally misunderstanding your point, which is entirely possible. I've been known to do that :) At any rate, I think I've confused myself now. (Been known to do that, too)
 
sugarb said:
Your implication that "Christians" condone murdering abortionists is just as pathetic as "Christians" implying that those supporting the right to abortion condone killing babies.

...
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This is like Muslims claiming they don't support the terrorists. Yeah, sure, I sort of believe it. But when you start looking for the details, the objections really don't seem that widespread or that loud.

OK, I am disgusted and emotional. And I am sorry for painting anyone with the broad brush they don't fall under. But how friggin loud have those Christian protests against these A-holes who believe they are doing God's work really been?

Clearly NOT LOUD ENOUGH! You are all responsible for not being loud enough. Fine, you can excuse your sorry asses, gee you don't condone this sort of thing. How Christian of you.
 
skeptigirl said:
This is like Muslims claiming they don't support the terrorists. Yeah, sure, I sort of believe it. But when you start looking for the details, the objections really don't seem that widespread or that loud.

OK, I am disgusted and emotional. And I am sorry for painting anyone with the broad brush they don't fall under. But how friggin loud have those Christian protests against these A-holes who believe they are doing God's work really been?

Clearly NOT LOUD ENOUGH! You are all responsible for not being loud enough. Fine, you can excuse your sorry asses, gee you don't condone this sort of thing. How Christian of you.
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Honestly, I do not understand this. What is this need to blame an ENTIRE group of people for the actions of a few? One American man shot another American man. You're an American, therefore it's YOUR fault for not being loud enough. How American of you.

A human kills another human. You're a human, therefore YOU are responsible for not being loud enough. How human of you.

See how ridiculous? Or no?
 
sugarb said:
Your implication that "Christians" condone murdering abortionists is just as pathetic as "Christians" implying that those supporting the right to abortion condone killing babies.

Some people are nutjobs. That's all there is to it. Nutjobs can claim to be anything...but they're just nutjobs.
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Right. Operation Rescue is so clear these 'nutjobs' have no doubt their colleagues condemn their actions. The Christians are so clear they don't agree.

Maybe some of those Christians ought to look at just why it is these 'nutjobs' misunderstand the 'Christian' message.
 
thaiboxerken said:
In short, Christianity is to blame here.
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Erm...I see it as one person taking it upon himself to level a firearm at another and pull the trigger.

IMHO, what led him to that point isn't nearly as important as the choice he made when he fired.

I'm not defending the beliefs of Christianity, I think they're outdated, backward-looking and more than just a little bit silly. But saying Christianity is to blame doesn't quite tack with me. Influencing factor? Most definitely. About as much as DOOM and bullying was to Klebold and Harris. Still doesn't clear them of the responsibility for their own actions.
 
Drudgewire said:
Again, this was a CHRISTIAN doctor in church with other CHRISTIANS.

Suggesting christianity is to blame rather than a nutcase requires ignoring these little facts.
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Any chance these 'Christians' would bother looking in to why their antiabortion messages are so misunderstood by the 'nutcases'? Of course not. All the 'Christians' need do to ease their consciences is to proclaim, they don't agree. How noble of them.
 
Drudgewire said:
And here I was thinking "thou shalt not kill" and "judge not, lest ye be judged" didn't mean "kill those who oppose you."

Silly me. :rolleyes:
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No, there you were missing the point. There you were absolving yourself and your peers of guilt. You don't agree with the perp's actions. How noble of you.
 
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