"Abortion Doctor" Murdered

Steelmage said:
But the question is, would he have killed that doctor without religion. The killer got the logic of killing the doctor to save lives from religion as far as I know this is where the idea seems to come from. Or put it a better way, is it religion that puts out the idea that a fetus has rights, or did it come from a non-religious source?
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Bad argument. It possible to think a Fetus has rights and oppose Abotion through political.peaceful means. And heaven knows that secular political movements have their share of violent wackjobs.
 
Drudgewire said:
Again, this was a CHRISTIAN doctor in church with other CHRISTIANS.

Suggesting christianity is to blame rather than a nutcase requires ignoring these little facts.
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Normally, I would agree with you--my OP was intentionally overstated.
I also noticed that the anti-abortionists were quick to "Condemn", but their main thoughts were
"One of my main concerns here is that the Obama administration and Democratic leaders don't make the same mistake that the Clinton administration made, and don't use this isolated episode to demonize an entire movement and try to take this tragedy for political gain," said Mahoney. "If they overreach, then they put pressure on peaceful people who are trying to peacefully change the climate on abortion in a way that President Obama talked about at Notre Dame."
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Who is using what for political gain?
 
dudalb said:
Thanks for proving my point about how an atheiest/seclurists can be just as close minded and bigoted as a religious fundy.
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Can't say I've seen many Atheists throwing acid into the faces of schoolgirls or murdering abortion doctors in the name of Atheism.
 
LostAngeles said:
Until we find that it was some religious whackjob and not a disgruntled employee/business partner or someone who was doing his wife or someone whose wife he was doing or simply random, I'm going to hold off on grumbling about fundies above my normal level of grumbling about fundies.

At this point, it's up there with the guy who blamed the, "towelheads," for the OK City Bombing right after it happened.
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Or a guy who found out his girlfriend had had an abortion at Tiller's clinic. Not saying that would be a justifiable motive, but it could be a motive.
 
Allen773 said:
This is a good reminder of the very real danger of far right-wing fanatics in America.
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It's certainly real. But it is hardly common. It is not only rare compared to other dangers -- terrorism generally kills far fewer people than, say, drunk driving -- but, certainly in the last decade or so, also rare compared to other terrorist threats from other quarters.
 
pizzadeliveryninja said:
That's Christians Muslims for you. Utter ****ing hypocrites who will murder in their god's name.
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I am not claiming either Christians or Muslims are like that, of course, but I keep wondering: why is the first expression "brave criticism" and the second "bigoed Islamophobia"? Both are equally idiotic and bigoted, if you ask me.
 
Skeptic said:
I am not claiming either Christians or Muslims are like that, of course, but I keep wondering: why is the first expression "brave criticism" and the second "bigoed Islamophobia"? Both are equally idiotic and bigoted, if you ask me.
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Who claimed that it was? Plenty of Muslims murder because of their religion.
 
If you sincerely believe abortion is murder, why wouldn't you do something like this? Unless you were a coward or something. I have to think that any pro-lifer who condemns this either doesn't really believe abortion is murder, or is more concerned about political posturing than about human life. The latter possibility is pretty despicable, and the former one is fine, but it kind of puts the pro-life position on weak footing, a little bit.
 
linusrichard said:
If you sincerely believe abortion is murder, why wouldn't you do something like this? Unless you were a coward or something. I have to think that any pro-lifer who condemns this either doesn't really believe abortion is murder, or is more concerned about political posturing than about human life. The latter possibility is pretty despicable, and the former one is fine, but it kind of puts the pro-life position on weak footing, a little bit.
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Well, that just doesn't make any sense to me. If I am opposed to abortion based on considering it murder, then...to murder someone, anyone, would make me a hypocrite, and put my anti-murder position on weak footing, wouldn't it?
 
pizzadeliveryninja said:
That's christians for you. Utter ****ing hypocrites who will murder in their god's name.
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That's funny, I know lots of Christians, and I can't think of a single one of them who'd murder anyone for any reason. I guess I'm incredibly lucky.

One whacko kills an abortionist because he thinks it's God's will (pace, LostAngeles), and you project that onto all Christians.

I suppose when you read in the papers that a guy in the projects killed a pizza delivery guy, you conclude, "That's the coloreds for you. Utter ****ing sociopaths who will murder for a couple of bucks."
 
linusrichard said:
If you sincerely believe abortion is murder, why wouldn't you do something like this?
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Well, for the same reason many people sincerely believe those who disagree with them theologically will go to hell for all eternity, but still don't go on a crusade or jihad or whatever to convert them all by force, even if -- in theory -- saving one soul from eternal punishment is worth any amount of suffering caused on earth in the process.
 
sugarb said:
Well, that just doesn't make any sense to me. If I am opposed to abortion based on considering it murder, then...to murder someone, anyone, would make me a hypocrite, and put my anti-murder position on weak footing, wouldn't it?
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Let's say you knew a fellow in your neighborhood who would go to the mall or a school or something every weekday with a gun, and take out two or three people. Shoppers, kids, teachers, whatever. Just shoot and kill them. Just a couple a day. And let's say the local police knew about him but, for some reason, they weren't allowed to interfere with what he was doing. It was perfectly legal, for some reason. I don't know why, just make something up.

Now, I believe murder is wrong. But do you think I wouldn't take this malefactor out at the earliest opportunity? Wouldn't you? Wouldn't you be willing to go to prison for the privilege, if that's what it meant? Or would you content yourself to carry signs and vote for politicians who also disapproved (ineffectually) of this guy's little killing sprees?
"Oh but that's different, that person is actually murdering people!"
Well that's what I'm saying - if you think this doctor was actually murdering people, why wouldn't you act to stop that?
 
Skeptic said:
Well, for the same reason many people sincerely believe those who disagree with them theologically will go to hell for all eternity, but still don't go on a crusade or jihad or whatever to convert them all by force, even if -- in theory -- saving one soul from eternal punishment is worth any amount of suffering caused on earth in the process.
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That doesn't answer my question, since I don't believe that those people sincerely believe what they claim to believe either. In other words, telling me that the reason for one thing is the same as the reason for another thing doesn't help me, because I don't know the reason for the other thing either.
 
rwguinn said:
http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?S=10451609

I guess only "life in the womb" is good.
I will never understand these ******** who do this. I wnat to see "Christians" condemn this ****, but I'm not holding my breath.
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If you want to see "Christians" condemn this, go to Operationrescue.org. When it returns, you will see that even the most conservative Christians abhor the abomination of shooting a person in church. You can see the same thing on the nrlc.org. Go to lifenews.com and see that all pro life groups condemn this murder.

I have posted about George Tiller extensively on this board. I saw this news go across the ticker on fox news and was stunned. That is the only word I can use to describe my reaction.

What happened in Ks. today was a tragedy. We live in a world where people don't respect life, we see late term abortionists abort viable babies, and we see hypocritical vigilantes kill in the name of protecting life. This shows that we need to build a culture that respects life in order to prevent this from happening in the future.
 
Here's what one disgusting anti-abortion group leader had to say:
Randall Terry, the founder of anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who led protests against George Tiller's clinic in Wichita, Kansas in 1991, issued a statement about today's killing of the abortion doctor.

"George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller's killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder."
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