Moderated Legitimate 9/11 Questions

Not much mention of jet fuel contamination.

After the cleanup? I'd hope not! If there was, that'd indicate an incomplete, incompetent effort.

My question was specific and legitimate. Only one of your links addresses the soil tests and this is what the article states:

The quotes demonstrate that first responders testified to fuel in the area. On top of that, we know a jet crashed there. Do you really need redundant proof of this? Or were the
  1. First responders
  2. FDR data
  3. FAA radar data
... wrong in demonstrating that FL93 was indeed there?

This is what I mean in my interpretation of T.A.M.'s request for "legitimate" questions, and why I don't see yours as fitting the bill. With all the testimony, as well as the EPA ordered cleanup, you still want soil testing results? To what end, Red? To confirm that the jet that was proven to crash there had fuel on board? Because if the question is more broadly aimed at injecting doubt as to the presence of FL93, then you'll need to ignore the FDR, CVR, radar data, cell and airphone calls, human remains, and airlline testimony to make that point. The only use such a test would have would be either 1. To demonstrate that a ground cleanup was necessary (and one was ordered, so you connect the dots on that), or 2. To see if FL93 was indeed fueled (and given that it was in the air under its own power prior to impact, we can quite safely presume that). Outside of that, there is no more legitimacy to asking for this than there is in asking for temperature readings to confirm the iceberg's proximity to the Titanic!
 
Hey Red, is jet fuel flammable?

So jet fuel survived the impact of the towers, managed to work its way all the way to the basements, but it's almost completely absent from the soil in Shanksville.

Is that really the tack you want to take with this?
 
So jet fuel survived the impact of the towers, managed to work its way all the way to the basements, but it's almost completely absent from the soil in Shanksville.

Is that really the tack you want to take with this?
Is there any significant difference between the tower impacts and the crash at Shanksville?

Take your time, now. I know it's a hard question.
 
So jet fuel survived the impact of the towers, managed to work its way all the way to the basements, but it's almost completely absent from the soil in Shanksville.

Is that really the tack you want to take with this?

Given the massive amount of evidence we have for the aircraft at WTC and Shanksville, so what?

Trivial, literal comparison of crash sites is pointless. No two crashes are alike.
 
So back to my original question:

If we have an unidentified plane, why the hell hasn't there been an investigation into what it was?

By the way, Susan McElwain has been greatly disturbed by the lack of response from officials regarding her account.

Great job hiding behind your computer screen and equating her to a "ufo nut".

Another question:

Why did the FBI agent who talked to Susan condescendingly say "you don't know what a 757 looks like" when she described the white UAV-like plane?

The FBI's job is to record the evidence, not tell the witnesses what they saw!

Source for FBI story:

youtube.com/watch?v=xsCh_UGKvSc&feature=related

Oh great, yet another reference to YouTube.

Fact: The only jet other than FL93 confirmed to be even remotely in the area was the VF Corp. business jet, a Dassault Falcon (forget which model). Radar puts no jets in the vicinity - not even this Falcon, since it was already in descent to an airport 20 miles away - and the Falcon did not arrive until after the crash, again because it was 20 miles away and only aborted its landing to overfly the crash site at the air traffic controller's request.

Fact: Susan McElwain is the only person giving testimony that can be interpreted as saying what she saw wasn't a business jet. The other 8 witnesses:
  • Jim Brandt
  • Rick Chaney
  • Susan Custer
  • Dennis Decker
  • Robin Doppstadt
  • Val McClatchey
  • Lee Purbaugh
  • Tom Spinelli
... were either nonspecific, or gave descriptions entirely consistent with the object sighted being a business jet, and for the ones who described what the jet did, they gave descriptions matching what the jet's pilot testified he did, which is fly low over the crash site (to confirm to ATCs what he saw), then leave after only a couple of minutes.

The fact remains that the weight of the evidence indicates that this white jet was indeed the VF Corp's business jet. Unless evidence stronger than Ms. McElwain's testimony that there was yet another, different object in the sky comes to light, there is no reason to believe there was a jet or missile separate from the VF Corp's Falconjet. Nor is there any reason to believe she was anything other than confused about what she saw, given the weight of all other testimony and evidence.

This is a dead end line of inquiry. Again: T.A.M. asked for legitimate questions, not poor insinuations.
 
So jet fuel survived the impact of the towers, managed to work its way all the way to the basements, but it's almost completely absent from the soil in Shanksville.

Is that really the tack you want to take with this?

I know this sciency stuff isn't your strong suite, but you do realize that oxygen is required for a fire, correct?
 
I have Kreel on ignore, and I suggest that other people follow suit. The reason I have him on ignore is because of inanities like this:

So if catching the first strike on the tower was just luck. How much luck was involved in also catching the airplane strike on the south tower by the Naudets?

KreeL

I can see in responses that he's been asking ridiculous, asinine questions about the Naudet brothers proximity to the disaster. They were filming a documentary in Manhattan for weeks up to that point; given that they were out and about with the firefighters, how could they have missed the event? There's no mystery to this at all. The fact that they were taken by surprise by the first impact is proof enough that they were not expecting it. But there is no luck involved in their presence to begin with, only odds. And given their task, why would their capturing the first impact be thought of as luck? They were present for other reasons, and had been in the area for weeks before that. Someone explain to me how that's "luck". If I'm in an area every day for weeks on end, and on one of those days I witness a car wreck, is it "luck" that I was there?

Proximity imposed by their choice of tasks is not luck.

And as to the specific comment I unhid to quote: Given that they had already witnessed the first strike, why in God's name would they not be filming the towers? They were documentarians! The capturing of the second impact flows from the fact they were documenting the consequences of the first! Just how far does one need to suspend logic in order to ask such a question?

It is hypocritical for members of the truth movement to find the Naudet brothers' filming of the NY impacts as suspicious, then turn around and find the relative lack of clear video of FL77's impact on the Pentagon as equally suspicious. Suspicion in one case contradicts the grounds for suspicion in the other! And harps on irrelevant details about the events on top of that. Outside of video or film, there is a great deal of evidence converging from multiple sources to establish that the flights identified as having hit the towers and the Pentagon were indeed FL 11, 175, and 77. Harping on film or video as suspicious ignores that plethora of evidence. Video, film, or lack of either does not prove or refute the identity of the flights on their own; rather, in conjunction with everything else that is known, it helps illustrate what happened. It is merely a single brick in the wall of evidence proving what happened on that day. Conspiracy peddlers need to stop obsessing over single bricks and start understanding that their narratives must encompass the entirety of the data, not merely satisfy point beliefs on isolated matters.

Now, can these asinine questions stop, and things move back to T.A.M.'s original intent, which is to focus on legitimate questions? All of the inanities that have been presented have been dealt with previously anyway; just use the damn search function to find them.
 
Please don't derail the purpose of this helpful thread with this kind of nonsense.

I hope a moderator or TAM will remind those who are straying way off the track here.

Why hope? There's a "Report" button. Use it.

ETA: Could you be specific about what kind of nonsense is acceptable to you?
 
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I know this sciency stuff isn't your strong suite, but you do realize that oxygen is required for a fire, correct?

As much as I'd like to help you get suspended again, or even banned, I'm going to ask politely that in this thread you refrain from personalized comments.

Poor spelling aside, your rhetorical question is illogical, unless you have some sort of proof that the towers were hermetically sealed.
 
I thought you were talking about the plane in the field? Not the Towers?
 
As much as I'd like to help you get suspended again, or even banned, I'm going to ask politely that in this thread you refrain from personalized comments.

Please.

Poor spelling aside, your rhetorical question is illogical, unless you have some sort of proof that the towers were hermetically sealed.

Again, the sciency stuff isn't your strong suite so please refrain from acting as if you know what you are talking about.
 
I thought you were talking about the plane in the field? Not the Towers?

Dtugg was attempting to suggest that the reason jet fuel survived the impacts of the towers was lack of oxygen, which is why little or no jet fuel was found in the soil at Shanksville.

Granted, it is twisted, but by this logic there would be no fuel contaminated soil at crash sites
 
Questions about the Naudets are valid. Their film proves foreknowledge. Everyone here has surely watched it by now.
 
Again, the sciency stuff isn't your strong suite so please refrain from acting as if you know what you are talking about.

I don't think science is anyone's "strong suite." Unless, we're talking about hotel construction.
 
Questions about the Naudets are valid. Their film proves foreknowledge. Everyone here has surely watched it by now.
Your posts proves you are exercising faulty logic and lack knowledge on 911.

You were told why they were filming and you make up moronic lies about it.
 
How is it a coincidence, that a filmmaker, with camera in tow, who just captured the first plane impact, captures the second impact? I would think it likely. I know if I were a filmmaker, and an airplane crash had just occurred into the building above me, i would have my camera locked on to the area.

TAM:)

Thank you, tam - however, wouldn't your camera be 'locked on' to the tower that was struck and that your brother was in?

Thanks in advance.


KreeL
 
Dtugg was attempting to suggest that the reason jet fuel survived the impacts of the towers was lack of oxygen, which is why little or no jet fuel was found in the soil at Shanksville.

Granted, it is twisted, but by this logic there would be no fuel contaminated soil at crash sites

You are the one brought up the towers remember.

And what I am alluding to makes perfect sense to people that aren't devoted to an anti-science religion.

Hey Red, what do you think happens to all the oxygen in an area when there is a gigantic freaking fireball?
 

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