Yet more NLP BS

[Lothario]

Concerned? Don't waste your concern on a d-bag like Ross Jeffries. He claims all this covert hypnosis crap because he's got enough guts to talk to girls despite his retarded Art Garfunkel jewfro haircut. I'd be claiming paranormal reasons, too!

Hahahaha. Good point, good point.

As for the testimonial evidence, i didn't find it only on his website. I found it all over forums related to the "pick-up artist" community.

 

[remirol]

So... nobody can provide a straight answer on whether it works or not? I am rather concerned.

Rest easy: It doesn't work.

I keep running into the most outrageous and unethical claims (things along the lines of creating sex slaves and stalkers, increasing sales, persuasion, etc). I've looked around for studies and i can only find studies on PRS and eye-acessing cues, which have been proven wrong. Nothing on the so called embedded commands and the efficiency of anchoring in the terms NLPers propose.

This is how you know it doesn't work. If I was selling snake oil I'd make a gazillion ridiculous claims too, as well as...

I know that testimonial evidence is not, by any means, evidence, but there's lots of it.

...fabricate as much testimonial evidence as I could to deceive the dumbasses who don't know that testimonials are meaningless.

Then, I'd go out and sell it on the Internet, which is chock full of lonely guys who can't figure out how to talk to a woman in real life and are looking for something, _anything_, to blame for it other than their own refusal to learn social skills. (And who are also coincidentally all looking for a "magic bullet" fix, rather than actually learning social skills.)

I'd make buckets of money. I'd want to bathe in bleach afterwards because of how scummy it'd make me feel, but buckets of money buys a lot of bleach.

 

[remirol]

Those guys don't use NLP, hypnosis, pheromones, or anything else. Their techniques are quite simple, indeed:

Actually, I can sum up their "technique" very simply:

* Clean yourself up and put some decent clothes on so you look presentable.
* Learn some basic social skills so you aren't totally hopeless.
* Go somewhere where there are a lot of single girls looking to get laid (nightclub, whatever).
* Proposition all of them. Stop when someone says "yes".

Presto! You are now a "pick-up artist". And you probably will end up with Creeping Dick Rot if you don't start using condoms, you dumb.

 

[Lothario]

...fabricate as much testimonial evidence as I could to deceive the dumbasses who don't know that testimonials are meaningless.

Even from psychologists and doctors? I've seen them believe in this crap too.

But I suppose you are right. I'm being absurd. I guess I was almost fooled by Derren Brown's misleading use of NLP and by the fact that NLP draws some elements (very few apparently) from valid psychology, which made me wonder whether it could work or not.

Thanks for all your opinions. Take care guys.

 

[remirol]

Even from psychologists and doctors? I've seen them believe in this crap too.

Sure. It can be even easier to con people like that, who can mistakenly assume their knowledge about a specific subject carries over to all subjects.

I guess I was almost fooled by Derren Brown's misleading use of NLP and by the fact that NLP draws some elements (very few apparently) from valid psychology, which made me wonder whether it could work or not.

Yep. At the core of all good BS is a nugget of almost-truth.

 

[MikeSun5]

Actually, I can sum up their "technique" very simply:

* Clean yourself up and put some decent clothes on so you look presentable.
* Learn some basic social skills so you aren't totally hopeless.
* Go somewhere where there are a lot of single girls looking to get laid (nightclub, whatever).
* Proposition all of them. Stop when someone says "yes".

Wow! That IS accurate!

remirol, you should sell that on a pamphlet for $50.00 a pop to wannabe pickup artists. Free money.

 

[remirol]

Wow! That IS accurate!

remirol, you should sell that on a pamphlet for $50.00 a pop to wannabe pickup artists. Free money.

See above remark about "bathing myself in bleach". For now, I'll pass. Maybe if things go completely south I'll cross over to the Dark Side.

 

[Moochie]

Wow, what an incredible slime-bucket (Ross Jeffries, I mean, not you Lothario).


Classy! If it were true that you could hypnotize a woman into having sex with you or becoming your sex-slave--against her better judgment and perhaps against her will--wouldn't that be a form of rape?

That's exactly how my relationship with my wife works. I've hypnotized her into having sex with me, and she's hypnotized me into doing the dishes, mowing the lawn, etc.

Works a treat.


M.

 

[Lothario]

That's exactly how my relationship with my wife works. I've hypnotized her into having sex with me, and she's hypnotized me into doing the dishes, mowing the lawn, etc.

Works a treat.


M.

If you ever found yourself wondering why you got married in the first place, Jeffries is probably the reason why .
Someone should start a thread so we can discuss NLP in general to find out if there's any merit in their techniques or not.

 

[Senex]

Someone should start a thread so we can discuss NLP in general to find out if there's any merit in their techniques or not.

NLP is pseudoscience and as such does not lend itself to well-defined anything. It would be easier if you picked what you believe to be an NLP technique and we can discuss the merit of the technique instead of the meaningless term NLP.

I used to be a student of suggestion techniques. If you want to defend yourself against being manipulated the book Influence by Cialdini is the best resource I have come across. You're in luck, I found this website that breaks the basics down. I recommend buying it or going to the library (most libraries have this book).
http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing20.html

 

[Lothario]

NLP is pseudoscience and as such does not lend itself to well-defined anything. It would be easier if you picked what you believe to be an NLP technique and we can discuss the merit of the technique instead of the meaningless term NLP.

I used to be a student of suggestion techniques. If you want to defend yourself against being manipulated the book Influence by Cialdini is the best resource I have come across. You're in luck, I found this website that breaks the basics down. I recommend buying it or going to the library (most libraries have this book).
http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing20.html

Hey Senex thanks for replying to the PM the other day.

I have that book in my computer. I've only flipped through it so far but it seems to be good.

As for NLP, i'm curious about two particular aspects: 1) embedded commands; 2) anchoring, particularly the latter as it is taken from Pavlov's conditioning studies.

 

[Senex]

As for NLP, i'm curious about two particular aspects: 1) embedded commands; 2) anchoring, particularly the latter as it is taken from Pavlov's conditioning studies.

Let's look at embedded commands. Reputable mentalists (that's not neccessarily mutually exclusive) like Luke Jeremy have published effects in which he suggests you can increase the odds of manipulating a spectator's choice by using an embedded command and raising your voice on a particular word. I think that might be possible but it's use as a manipulation tool doesn't go past increasing the odds of a person on stage who is nervous choosing a black face card instead of a red card or the number 57 instead of 37. It has very little and very short-term potential if any at all.

I'm not certain how anchoring can help manipulate anyone. I guess if you ask someone a favor while the smell of baked bread or bacon is in the air might increase your odds of them saying yes if they like bread or bacon. You can't touch someones right shoulder at some point and expect them to be manipulated some time in the future when you touch their right shoulder again if that's what you are wondering.

I think you've been watching too much Darren Brown. There was a video on Youtube (since taken down) in which he gets some British actor named Simon something (popular from some Zombie movie) to write down a birthday wish on a piece of paper he puts in an envelope and carries around for a week in which he then sees Darren Brown and receives the present that was written in the envelope but Simon denied writing but stated was in his handwriting. Pages and pages of comments were written on Youtube about this effect where people were writing the particular time of the video he was using embedded commands and anchoring and Ericsonian handshakes (that Ericsonian handshake I can say with certainty is a crock). If you are familiar with mentalism effects it was painfully obvious the truth was he used a very mundane easy to see through method but people would prefer to believe he used mind control techniques that are not at all possible. I wrote my theory and had some interesting discussions with people who just refused to believe the simplist explanation was the correct one.

Look at it this way -- the most succeful people in society do not use embedded commands or anchoring to persuade people. Only entertainers and people trying to sell woo books use it. That must tell you something.

 

[Moochie]

Let's look at embedded commands. Reputable mentalists (that's not neccessarily mutually exclusive) like Luke Jeremy have published effects in which he suggests you can increase the odds of manipulating a spectator's choice by using an embedded command and raising your voice on a particular word. I think that might be possible but it's use as a manipulation tool doesn't go past increasing the odds of a person on stage who is nervous choosing a black face card instead of a red card or the number 57 instead of 37. It has very little and very short-term potential if any at all.

I'm not certain how anchoring can help manipulate anyone. I guess if you ask someone a favor while the smell of baked bread or bacon is in the air might increase your odds of them saying yes if they like bread or bacon. You can't touch someones right shoulder at some point and expect them to be manipulated some time in the future when you touch their right shoulder again if that's what you are wondering.

I think you've been watching too much Darren Brown. There was a video on Youtube (since taken down) in which he gets some British actor named Simon something (popular from some Zombie movie) to write down a birthday wish on a piece of paper he puts in an envelope and carries around for a week in which he then sees Darren Brown and receives the present that was written in the envelope but Simon denied writing but stated was in his handwriting. Pages and pages of comments were written on Youtube about this effect where people were writing the particular time of the video he was using embedded commands and anchoring and Ericsonian handshakes (that Ericsonian handshake I can say with certainty is a crock). If you are familiar with mentalism effects it was painfully obvious the truth was he used a very mundane easy to see through method but people would prefer to believe he used mind control techniques that are not at all possible. I wrote my theory and had some interesting discussions with people who just refused to believe the simplist explanation was the correct one.

Look at it this way -- the most succeful people in society do not use embedded commands or anchoring to persuade people. Only entertainers and people trying to sell woo books use it. That must tell you something.

I agree with all you've written, Senex. It seems to be a form of woo that appeals particularly to people of a certain psychological disposition, whereas regular folks, if they want something from someone, simply ask for it, whether it's butter, a drink, or sex. In my experience, only minds that want to be controlled can be controlled, as I alluded to in a previous post about the relationship between my wife and I. (Incidentally, in December we will be celebrating 24 happy years together -- 24 happy woo-free years. )


M.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

There was a video on Youtube (since taken down) in which he gets some British actor named Simon something (popular from some Zombie movie) to write down a birthday wish on a piece of paper he puts in an envelope and carries around for a week in which he then sees Darren Brown and receives the present that was written in the envelope but Simon denied writing but stated was in his handwriting. Pages and pages of comments were written on Youtube about this effect where people were writing the particular time of the video he was using embedded commands and anchoring and Ericsonian handshakes (that Ericsonian handshake I can say with certainty is a crock). If you are familiar with mentalism effects it was painfully obvious the truth was he used a very mundane easy to see through method but people would prefer to believe he used mind control techniques that are not at all possible. I wrote my theory and had some interesting discussions with people who just refused to believe the simplist explanation was the correct one.

That's this video:

So, how did he do it? You might think it's "easy to see through", but I can't see it. But, then, I do miss a lot.

 

[MikeSun5]

Look at it this way -- the most succeful people in society do not use embedded commands or anchoring to persuade people. Only entertainers and people trying to sell woo books use it. That must tell you something.

Thank you! I've been saying that for years. If NLP worked, more people would know about it. Not just Derren Brown, Ross Jeffries and Tony Robbins.

I think the NLP crowd gets such great results with that crap because they and those who they use it on believe it works. Just like all other woo.

 

[Lothario]

Thanks for your opinions guys. This NLP thing had me worried for a while now. BTW, how do you explain that trick where Derren Brown confuses the girl into thinkin that red is black?

 

[Axiom_Blade]

Thanks for your opinions guys. This NLP thing had me worried for a while now. BTW, how do you explain that trick where Derren Brown confuses the girl into thinkin that red is black?

Yeah, I'd like to know more about how these tricks are really done. I don't know much about mentalism, except for cold reading.

By the way, I wonder how Brown proposes that you use NLP in a normal, everyday conversation. I think most people wouldn't be too happy about being you tapping them on the shoulder and touching their arm all the time, and you'd probably get punched in the face a lot.

 

[Iknoweverything]

Thank you! I've been saying that for years. If NLP worked, more people would know about it. Not just Derren Brown, Ross Jeffries and Tony Robbins.

I think the NLP crowd gets such great results with that crap because they and those who they use it on believe it works. Just like all other woo.

Incorrect.

When you say "NLP" you cover a rather large array of techniques. Many are "woo" as you put it, but some are not. Feel free to find out for yourself which parts are useful.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

Feel free to find out for yourself which parts are useful.

Um, how about NO. Who has time to try out 100 techniques, just to see which of the 5 actually work? Especially when there's a science of the mind, called psychology, which uses testing and peer review...as far as I can tell, NLP does not.

 

[Iknoweverything]

Um, how about NO. Who has time to try out 100 techniques, just to see which of the 5 actually work? Especially when there's a science of the mind, called psychology, which uses testing and peer review...as far as I can tell, NLP does not.

Yes and I have a degree in psychology, thank you for your eye opening reply

You also stated you know nothing about mentalism, I do.

That makes your replies even more amusing