Moderated Legitimate 9/11 Questions

Prior to 911, ( and Oklahoma) I am not aware of any other terrorist attack on mainland USA.

It is understandable that the USA had a 'it could never happen here' mindset.

911 was a first for many many reasons. I dont need to list them.

It is understandable, with hindsight, to raise questions about inteligence and security issues. Human nature to want to know if we are safe. I would have expected this to be the line that the twoofers took as i would have thought it would be this that would generate the most support from the general public.

Having said that, the UK had/has been subject to terrorism on its mainland/NI for decades. Numerous bombings and terrorists attacks with thousands dead. No ammount of inteligence or security prevented those attacks that got through, even attacks on military bases and personel!

We recently had the bus and tube bombings in London. Post 911 attacks carried out under the same ideals. No increased intel/security measures post 911 prevented those attacks in London.

Was intel/security lacking in NY and London? With hindsight and human nature - Yes, we would hope to be safer than that!

In reality and in the uncertainty, confusion, fog and heat of that time i dont suppose anything else could have been done any different.

We like to think that it could have been prevented but how can you prevent a mad man, who blends in with society, completing his mission?

You only have to look at the images from Israel that show children strapped with explosives approaching checkpoints or the images of a qualified doctor driving a Landrover full of explosive/flamable materials into the departure terminal of a Scottish airport!
 
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Jackanory said:
Prior to 911, ( and Oklahoma) I am not aware of any other terrorist attack on mainland USA.

It is understandable that the USA had a 'it could never happen here' mindset.

911 was a first for many many reasons. I dont need to list them.

It is understandable, with hindsight, to raise questions about inteligence and security issues. Human nature to want to know if we are safe. I would have expected this to be the line that the twoofers took as i would have thought it would be this that would generate the most support from the general public.

Having said that, the UK had/has been subject to terrorism on its mainland/NI for decades. Numerous bombings and terrorists attacks with thousands dead. No ammount of inteligence or security prevented those attacks that got through, even attacks on military bases and personel!

We recently had the bus and tube bombings in London. Post 911 attacks carried out under the same ideals. No increased intel/security measures post 911 prevented those attacks in London.

Was intel/security lacking in NY and London? With hindsight and human nature - Yes, we would hope to be safer than that!

In reality and in the uncertainty, confusion, fog and heat of that time i dont suppose anything else could have been done any different.

We like to think that it could have been prevented but how can you prevent a mad man, who blends in with society, completing his mission?

You only have to look at the images from Israel that show children strapped with explosives approaching checkpoints or the images of a qualified doctor driving a Landrover full of explosive/flamable materials into the departure terminal of a Scottish airport!
Click to expand...
There was the prior WTC bombing as well. Done by foreign terrorists also.
 
BigAl said:
Reportedly two other people got video of the first hit by nowhere near the quality. (souce if asked. I have to dig it up)
Click to expand...

I'm only aware of one other video of the first hit, and I don't think it actually caught the impact, just the plane heading toward the building. It was taken by an immigrant from Europe, I believe, just as he was coming out of a tunnel. He had no idea what was on the tape and didn't watch it for a year or so.

But, yes, there had to be dozens (if not hundreds) of cameras out doing normal life things during the first hit. The odds are that someone would have caught the first hit. It happened to be the Naudet brothers.

In the spirit of the OP, I don't think we've had an account of what went on blow-by-blow in FAA headquarters. There's some parts of the 9/11 Report that seem to indict in a roundabout way by mentioning them and then talking about how other elements of the response were doing the best they could. I could be reading into it.

Also, a persistent point we get over at DU which I would like to see cleared up, the leaders of the CIA and FBI bin Laden units at the time haven't ever been interviewed in a way that the public could examine. I for one would like to know what was going on there.
 
This doesn't lean towards LIHOP as much as it's just something that's been bugging the bejesus out of me:

What were the results of the FBI investigation at the WTC? Recall that Pomeroo confirmed that the FBI had in fact studied elements of the debris too. What was the result of their investigation?

Now, I understand completely why those results haven't been released; they're holding it in the event that they're able to prosecute someone besides Moussaoui. I also believe that what NIST said about explosives testing applies: If the FBI conducted any chemical analysis, then as NIST said, there's no way they'd be definitive because of the chemical stew that would've been present; it'd be hard to differentiate between items meant to be there and elements "imported", so to speak. But despite that: I'd still like to know what the results of their investigation was, even if it all ended up being uncertain and unspecific. Their findings would, at least, no longer be a mystery.
 
BigAl said:
The FBI, the CIA and the NSA had leads on many of them in the summer of 2001. Read Spying Blind and Amy Zegart. In the summer of 2002 I heard a presentation by a private investigator with good connections to the Three-Letter-Agencies who described how they broke the case in minutes from the credit cards used to buy the tickets and expanded the case very quickly from there.

Not preventing at least some of the hijackings took a special kind of incompetency.
Click to expand...

So then, were all the hijackers operating under the identities they were born with?
 
Ragnarok said:
So then, were all the hijackers operating under the identities they were born with?
Click to expand...

See [5].

Table of Contents
[1] Reading list for all the evidence we have about the hijackers.
[2] The martyrdom videos made by 7 of the hijackers.
[3] Arabic spoken in cockpits of hijaked planes.
[4] Boarding manifest for Flt11 that shows hijacker's names
[5] The names of the hijackers
[6] BBC on the names and reporting of the hijackers
[7] Evidence for hijackers connected to bin Laden.
[OBL1] NEWS (Jan 2001) Some See U.S. as Terrorists' Next Big Target
[OBL2] (Jan 2001) ObL Tells Reporter that US attacks are comming.
[OBL3] ObL's connections to 9/11 prior to 2001 described
[OBL4] bin Laden quotes
[OBL5] Al Qaeda: Statements and Evolving Ideology
[OBL6] 1966: bin Laden declares war on America.
[OBL7] ObL attacks on America prior to 2001 listed
[OBL8] Specific attack warnings
[8] Status of Hijacker DNA - (2009)
[9] Answer to "At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive"
[10] FLt 11 boarding maiinfest shows arab names
[11] News Report on hijackers as of Nov 2, 2001
[12] Hanjour as a pilot
[13] Photo and DNA ID match of some of the hijackers.
[14] Identification of the Flt 77 hijackers

If you want to know *why* each person is on the list, read any or all
of these books to get an idea of just how much evidence for who
hijacked the planes and how they are connected directly to bin Laden
and KSM and the American Embassy bombings in Africa and the attack on
the USS Cole. Some of these names were known to the FBI even before
9/11/2001 for their crimes.


[1] -------------------------------------------------------

Essential reading list

The Looming Tower: Al Qaeda and the Road to 9/11
by Lawrence
Perfect Soldiers: The 9/11 Hijackers: Who They Were, Why They Did It
by Terry Mcdermott
The Shadow Factory: The Ultra-Secret NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on America,
by James Bamford.
PBS Video on Bamford http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/spyfactory/program.html
Spying Blind
by Amy Zegart
Perfect Soldiers
by Terry McDermott

[2] -------------------------------------------------------

This video has the martyrdom videos made by some of the hijackers.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1619489

Hijackers video wills (Scroll down to the bottom)
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Responsibility

[3] -------------------------------------------------------

We have the audio of Arabs on the recovered cockpit voice recorders.

The CVR clearly captured the words of the hijackers, including
words in Arabic from the microphone in the pilot headset up to the
end of the flight. The hijackers' statements, the clarity of the
recording, the position of the microphone in the pilot headset, and
the corresponding manipulations of flight controls provide the
evidence. The quotes are taken from our listening to the CVR, aided
by an Arabic speaker.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/9/11_Commission_Report/Notes/Part_1


[4] -------------------------------------------------------

I have the boarding manifest for Flt11 that shows the names.
http://www.911myths.com/images/8/84/Flight_11_Manifest.gif

The above is a *tiny* part of the evidence we have for 19 Islamists
hijacking the 4 jets on 9/11. There is no alternative theory that is
consistent with this body of evidence.

[5] -------------------------------------------------------

Names:

AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT 77

1) Khalid Almihdhar - Possible Saudi national
-Possible resident of San Diego, California, and New York
-Alias: Sannan Al-Makki; Khalid Bin Muhammad; 'Addallah Al-Mihdhar;
Khalid Mohammad Al-Saqaf

2) Majed Moqed - Possible Saudi national
-Alias: Majed M.GH Moqed; Majed Moqed, Majed Mashaan Moqed

3) Nawaf Alhazmi - Possible Saudi national
-Possible resident of Fort Lee, New Jersey; Wayne, New Jersey; San Diego,
California
-Alias: Nawaf Al-Hazmi; Nawaf Al Hazmi; Nawaf M.S. Al Hazmi

4) Salem Alhazmi - Possible Saudi national
-Possible resident of Fort Lee, New Jersey; Wayne, New Jersey

5) Hani Hanjour -
-Possible resident of Phoenix, Arizona, and San Diego, California
-Alias: Hani Saleh Hanjour; Hani Saleh; Hani Hanjour, Hani Saleh H. Hanjour

AMERICAN AIRLINES #11 BOEING 767

1) Satam M.A. Al Suqami- Possible Saudi national
-Dates of birth used: June 28, 1976; Last known address: United Arab Emirates

2) Waleed M. Alshehri - Possible Saudi national
-Dates of birth used: September 13, 1974; January 1, 1976; March 3,
1976; July 8, 1977; December 20, 1978; May 11, 1979; November 5, 1979
-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Orlando, Florida;
Daytona Beach, Florida
-Believed to be a pilot

3) Wail M. Alshehri
-Date of birth used: September 1, 1968
-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Newton, Massachusetts
-Believed to be a pilot

4) Mohamed Atta - Possible Egyptian national
-Date of birth used: September 1, 1968
-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Coral Springs, Florida;
Hamburg, Germany
-Believed to be a pilot
-Alias: Mehan Atta; Mohammad El Amir; Muhammad Atta; Mohamed El
Sayed; Mohamed Elsayed; Muhammad Muhammad Al Amir Awag Al Sayyid
Atta; Muhammad Muhammad Al-Amir Awad Al Sayad

5) Abdulaziz Alomari - Possible Saudi national
-Dates of birth used: December 24, 1972 and May 28, 1979
-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida
-Believed to be a pilot


UNITED AIRLINES #175 BOEING 767

1) Marwan Al-Shehhi
-Date of birth used: May 9, 1978
-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida
-Believed to be a pilot
-Alias: Marwan Yusif Muhammad Rashid Al-Shehi; Marwan Yusif Muhammad
Rashid Lakrab Al-Shihhi; Abu Abdullah

2) Fayez Rashid Ahmed Hassan Al Qadi Banihammad
-Possible residence(s): Delray Beach, Florida
-Alias: Fayez Ahmad; Banihammad Fayez Abu Dhabi Banihammad; Fayez
Rashid Ahmed; Banihammad Fayez; Rasid Ahmed Hassen Alqadi; Abu
Dhabi Banihammad ; Ahmed Fayez; Faez Ahmed

3) Ahmed Alghamdi
-Alias: Ahmed Salah Alghamdi

4) Hamza Alghamdi
-Possible residence(s): Delray Beach, Florida
-Alias: Hamza Al-Ghamdi; Hamza Ghamdi; Hamzah Alghamdi; Hamza
Alghamdi Saleh

5) Mohand Alshehri
-Possible residence(s): Delray Beach, Florida
-Alias: Mohammed Alshehhi; Mohamd Alshehri; Mohald Alshehri


UNITED AIRLINES #93 BOEING 757

1) Saeed Alghamdi
-Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida
-Alias: Abdul Rahman Saed Alghamdi; Ali S Alghamdi; Al- Gamdi; Saad
M.S. Al Ghamdi; Sadda Al Ghamdi; Saheed Al-Ghamdi; Seed Al Ghamdi

2) Ahmed Ibrahim A. Al Haznawi - Possible Saudi national
-Date of birth used: October 11, 1980
-Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida
-Alias: Ahmed Alhaznawi

3) Ahmed Alnami
-Possible residence: Delray Beach, Florida
-Alias: Ali Ahmed Alnami; Ahmed A. Al-Nami; Ahmed Al- Nawi

4) Ziad Samir Jarrah
-Believed to be a pilot
-Alias: Zaid Jarrahi; Zaid Samr Jarrah; Ziad S. Jarrah; Ziad Jarrah
Jarrat, Ziad Samir Jarrahi


[6] -----------------------------------------

BBC on the names and reporting of the hijackers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html


[7] ----------------------------------

Osama bin Laden connected to 9/11 and attacks on America.

The following is a small part of the evidence that connects bin Laden
with the hijackers and the attacks of 9/11.

[OBL1] NEWS (Jan 2001) Some See U.S. as Terrorists' Next Big Target
[OBL2] (Jan 2001) ObL Tells Reporter that US attacks are comming.
[OBL3] ObL's connections to 9/11 prior to 2001 described
[OBL4] bin Laden quotes
[OBL5] Al Qaeda: Statements and Evolving Ideology
[OBL6] 1966: bin Laden declares war on America.
[OBL7] ObL attacks on America prior to 2001 listed
[OBL8] Specific attack warnings

[OBL1] ------------------------------------

NEWS: Some See U.S. as Terrorists' Next Big Target

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jan/13/news/mn-53626

Bin Laden Is Said to Be at Center of Loose Web
By John-Thor Dahlburg
January 13, 2000 in print edition A-1

...

U.S. and European authorities say that at the center of this web,
which has been loosely spun from the Philippines to North America,
is Saudi militant Osama bin Laden. A former Afghan moujahedeen, or
holy warrior, the 43-year-old Bin Laden is on the FBI's
10-most-wanted list for allegedly sponsoring the 1998 bombings of
the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania that killed 224 people.

In a development indicative of Bin Laden's esteem among his brothers
in arms, after the United States succeeded in obtaining a
U.N. Security Council resolution in October demanding Bin Laden's
extradition from Afghanistan, GIA leader Antar Zouabri issued a
letter that condemned the West for persecuting Islamic militants and
that vowed reprisals.

French officials said Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian national arrested
Dec. 14 in Washington state on suspicion of plotting a bombing in
the United States, received his military training at one of Bin
Laden's camps in eastern Afghanistan.

According to the French, the 33-year-old North African belonged to
the "Roubaix gang," a band of armed robbers of Algerian, Bosnian and
French origin who trained in Islamic camps in Bosnia-Herzegovina and
carried out a series of holdups in Belgium and northern France in
early 1996.

Judge Jean-Louis Bruguiere, one of France's top anti-terrorism
investigators, says a flexible, diffuse and worldwide structure
makes Muslim extremism a growing problem that demands more intense
cross-border cooperation.

In the space of one month, the French judge's investigations took
him as far afield as Canada and Australia.

"The Islamic extremist threat is the Internet of terrorism,"
Bruguiere said.


[OBL2] ------------------------------

June, 2001: ObL Tells London reporter "attacks are comming.

June 21st, 2001: Bakr Atyani, a reporter for Saudi Arabian owned
broadcaster Middle East Broadcasting Corp. meets with Osama bin Laden
and his aides in a desert area of Afghanistan. According to Atyani,
"Bin Laden seemed happy with the talks of his aides who said that the
coming weeks will hold important surprises that will target American
and Israeli interests in the world."

June 22nd, 2001: The US State Department issued a "Worldwide Caution"
regarding the risk of a terrorist attack by extremist groups. It
specifically mentioned groups with links to Bin Laden and his Al Queda
organization as possible sources for the threat.

June 22nd, 2001: US military forces throughout the Persian Gulf were
put on a heightened state of alert.

June 22nd, 2001: A U.S. Marine Corps contingent in Jordan cut short
its training session and returned to its ships.

June 22nd, 2001: U.S. 5th Fleet sent its ships out of port in Bahrain.

June 23rd, 2001: Middle East Broadcasting Corp reported that followers
of Bin Laden were planning an attack on American and Israeli interests
within the next few weeks. Bakr Atyani's interview with Bin Laden is a
featured report.

June 24th: Taliban officials responde

http://archive.democrats.com/view.cfm?id=7743

Described in Bamford [OBL3] Starting on p.16


[OBL3] -----------------------------------------------------

"The Shadow Factory - The Ultra=Secret NSA from 9/11..' by Bamford.
- Description of evidence connecting Obl to attacks on America P. 16

[OBL4] -----------------------------------

bin Laden quotes
http://iraqwar.org/binladenquotes.htm

[OBL5] --------------------------------

Congressional Research Service
Al Qaeda: Statements and Evolving Ideology
Updated July 9, 2007
Christopher M. Blanchard, Analyst in Middle Eastern Affairs
- http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/terror/RL32759.pdf


...The third and "ultimate objective," according to Al Adl, (*)
"was to prompt [the United States] to come out of its hole." Al Adl
claims that Al Qaeda wanted to provoke the United States into
attacking areas of the Islamic world associated with the
organization and its affiliates. In doing so, Al Adl claims, Al
Qaeda hoped to make it easier to attack elements of U.S. power and
to build its "credibility in front of [the Islamic] nation and the
beleaguered people of the world."

Al Adl and others have conceded that the attacks on New York and
Washington were not totally successful, while arguing that the
September 11 attack "was enough to prompt the Americans to carry
out the anticipated response" - namely direct military action
within the Islamic world.

...In December 2004, Bin Laden identified the conflict in Iraq as "a
golden and unique opportunity" for jihadists to engage and defeat
the United States, and he characterized the insurgency in Iraq as
the central battle in a "Third World War, which the Crusader-Zionist
coalition began against the Islamic nation." 24

(*) Al-Qa'ida Leader Sayf al-Adl OSC Report - GMP2005060637100, May 21, 2005


[OBL6] ----------------------------------------------------

1966: bin Laden declares war on America
http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/opf980830a.htm

[OBL7] -----------------------------
ObL Early attacks and aid for attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden#Militant_activity

[OBL8] ----------------------------------------

Specific attack warnings
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&warning_signs:_speci\
fic_cases


[8] ------------------------------------------------
Newsweek - Remains of the Day

Nineteen hijackers died on 9/11. What should be done with what's
left of them? Eve Conant

From the magazine issue dated Jan 12, 2009

...Through a combination of innovative DNA-mapping techniques, help
from the FBI's crime lab and dumb luck, the scientists have now ID'd
four of the 10 New York hijackers. The remains of the nine hijackers
from the Pentagon and Pennsylvania crash sites have also been
confirmed; six other hijackers have yet to be identified. ...

http://www.newsweek.com/id/177724/output/print

[9] -----------------------------------------------

At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hijackers.html

BBC Response
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html


[10] ----------------------------------------------------

Manifest
http://www.911myths.com/images/8/84/Flight_11_Manifest.gif

Discussion
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124907

[11] -------------------------------------------------------
News report as of Nov 2, 2001
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/11/02/attack/main316806.shtml

[12] --------------------------------------------

New York Newsday article from 9/23/01.

"Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a
pilot, said Bernard of Freeway Airport. "There's no doubt in
my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could
have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said."
Most of the complaints that I've seen were that he couldn't
land well. Considering what he was planning on doing, I
wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't exactly the top of his
"skills to hone" list.

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/deceptions/nynewsday_sep23.html

Woman taught 9/11 hijacker how to fly
http://www.capeargus.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=55&fArticleId=3171841



[13] -------------------------

Photo and DNA ID match of some of the pilots.

This 9/11 Commission document explains how the FBI attempted to
verify the hijackers identities (includes an apparent DNA match
with Jarrah).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13950034/...BI-ID-of-Hijackers-by-Family-Members-PENTTBOM

http://911myths.com/index.php/Image:Team5_Box62_AliasesAndIDs-FBIIDsHijackers-1.pdf

[14] ---------------------------------

Identification of the Flt 77 hijackers

This 9/11 Commission document includes details of a forensic
examination of hijacker ID cards recovered from the Pentagon, and a
list of identification documents belonging to the hijackers
(passports, visas, driving licences, more).

http://911myths.com/images/b/ba/Team5_Box46_Chronology_US_Identifications.pdf
 
Jackanory said:
Prior to 911, ( and Oklahoma) I am not aware of any other terrorist attack on mainland USA.
Click to expand...

There were a few. An Islamists shot up the CIA employees stuck in rush-hour traffic on the exit ramp to the CIA headquarters. He jumped on a plane to Asia and I believe he showed up later as part of ObL's band.

The people that did the Meir Kahane assassination (1990) had connections to people that bombed WTC in 1993.

There were crates of Arabic documents captured with the perps of the Kahane murder and by pure incompetency on the part of the FBI if not other agencies, they remained untranslated until after 9/11. had they been translated in a timely manor, 9/11/2001 and maybe 1993 might not have happened.

bin Laden might have had something to do with an attack that killed 2 Amricans in Aden in 1992.

There are a few more but I'm drawing a blank right now.
 
What was the "white plane" reported by Susan McElwain, John Fleegle, Viola Saylor, and others and what was its relationship to the attacks?
 
Was there a soil analysis done at Shanksville? And what were the results of those tests?
 
RedIbis said:
Was there a soil analysis done at Shanksville? And what were the results of those tests?
Click to expand...

Forgive me if I seem dense, but what would the reason for such a test be?

I can't imagine why the chemical/particulate make up of the soil into which UA93 crashed would be relevant.

Can you give us an idea of what anomalies (if any) such a test would be looking for?
 
Red is trying to insinuate that because there was no jet fuel in the soil, that no plane crashed at Shanksville. Of course, the obvious answer to those of us who are not emotionally invested in ridiculous fantasies is that the jet fuel burned up. One must wonder, however, if Red's fantasy were true, why the all powerful NWO didn't just pour some jet fuel on the ground if its absence would be suspicious.
 
dtugg said:
Red is trying to insinuate that because there was no jet fuel in the soil, that no plane crashed at Shanksville. Of course, the obvious answer to those of us who are not emotionally invested in ridiculous fantasies is that the jet fuel burned up. One must wonder, however, if Red's fantasy were true, why the all powerful NWO didn't just pour some jet fuel on the ground if its absence would be suspicious.
Click to expand...

I didn't get that from what he asked above.

Has he suggested such in the past? I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for civility's sake if nothing else.
 
JoeyDonuts said:
I didn't get that from what he asked above.

Has he suggested such in the past? I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for civility's sake if nothing else.
Click to expand...

That's what he was getting at.

I forget which thread, but yes, he has suggested such in the past.
 
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