The 25 fulfilled prophecies of Isaiah chapter 53

[joobz]

So I'm derailing my own thread when I show how Jesus of the Bible quoted Isaiah often???

And just to show how important prophecy was to Jesus one can read how he helped explain it to his followers following his resurrection in the Gospel of Luke chapter 24 verses 25,26.

Is that the same Luke who made up the census story?

 

[Hokulele]

So I'm derailing my own thread when I show how Jesus of the Bible quoted Isaiah often?

Actually, he quotes Leviticus the most often (hint, the Law of Moses). He is described as mentioning "prophets", but there are no direct citations of which prophet and which verse. The author of Matthew cites prophetic verses directly, often with amusing consequences (hint, Rodeo Jesus).

Trying to tie Jesus to Isaiah is apologetics at best, pure fiction at worst.

 

[slingblade]

By the way Isaiah was one of Jesus' favorite books of the Bible and Jesus quoted it often.

Jesus had a Bible?

 

[tsig]

Jesus had a Bible?

KJV no less. it wouldn't do for god to speak any lesser tongue.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

While I have no interest in wasting my time or energy "debating" with DOC any longer, I would highly recommend the second chapter of Dr. Robert M. Price's The Paperback Apocalypse: How the Christian Church Was Left Behind. It gives an excellent run down and debunking of the various Old Testament "prophecies" attributed to Jesus, especially Isaiah, in the context of LaHaye and Jenkin's series of fundie snuff-novels.

Once again, I implore all of you to to take Brother Sam's advice, put DOC on ignore and leave him to stew in his ignorance.

 

[Lothian]

By the way Isaiah was one of Jesus' favorite books of the Bible and Jesus quoted it often. I have a feeling Jesus knew a little more about the Old Testament and Isaiah then the people in here.

Actually, he quotes Leviticus the most often (hint, the Law of Moses).

And just to show how important prophecy was to Jesus one can read how he helped explain it to his followers following his resurrection in the Gospel of Luke chapter 24 verses 25,26.

Perhaps his tastes changed after he was dead. I went to a spiritualist and it was amazing how different my grandfather had become. Even his right leg grew back.

 

[Belz...]

To summarize:
Here's a list of problems with attempting to link Jesus to Isaiah.


Now, here's a list of the unanswered questions for you?

Still waiting, DOC.

 

[kmortis]

Still waiting, DOC.

I hope you're not holding your breath. Blue is just not your color.

 

[dafydd]

Actually I did miss the warning, but Geezer posted his post about Tactitus before the warning, and it has to do with whether or not Jesus existed (which most scholars believe he did).

If people don't believe Christ actually existed (unlike most scholars) you have to show them the evidence he did exist before you can talk about Isaiah prophecising the Messiah.

By the way Isaiah was one of Jesus' favorite books of the Bible and Jesus quoted it often. I have a feeling Jesus knew a little more about the Old Testament and Isaiah then the people in here.

I would be fascinated to learn how Jesus got his mitts on a copy of the Bible.

 

[kmortis]

I would be fascinated to learn how Jesus got his mitts on a copy of the Bible.

Pffft...he knows the author. Duh!

 

[Cleon]

I would be fascinated to learn how Jesus got his mitts on a copy of the Bible.

In (undue) fairness to DOC, for Jews "the Bible" refers to the Tanakh. It's not like "the Bible" didn't exist until Christians started including their preferred gospels as the "new Testament."

So it is possible for Jesus (assuming he existed) to have known the Bible.

However, at the time and place Jesus lived, Torah study was generally beyond the financial means of a carpenter. I find it unlikely that he would have had more than a rudimentary knowledge of the Bible.

 

[joobz]

However, at the time and place Jesus lived, Torah study was generally beyond the financial means of a carpenter. I find it unlikely that he would have had more than a rudimentary knowledge of the Bible.

Being a carpenter doesn't need to equate to being poor. Interesting question is what is the likelihood of a carpenter son to become a Rabbi? I'm not familiar with the jewish culture at the time, but was there any barriers that a person would have to becoming a Rabbi based upon thier vocation?

 

[kmortis]

Being a carpenter doesn't need to equate to being poor. Interesting question is what is the likelihood of a carpenter son to become a Rabbi? I'm not familiar with the jewish culture at the time, but was there any barriers that a person would have to becoming a Rabbi based upon thier vocation?

Considering that the word that we call "carpenter" is better translated as "laborer"¹, yeah he would be that poor. Something tells me that the title "Rabbi" was an honorific given to him by his followers. I could be wrong though.





¹Check out Bart Ehrman's books for this. No, I don't remember which one off the top of my head.

 

[joobz]

Considering that the word that we call "carpenter" is better translated as "laborer"¹...

So you're saying that it was Joseph who birthed Jesus? No wonder why Mary was still a virgin...

 

[Hokulele]

In (undue) fairness to DOC, for Jews "the Bible" refers to the Tanakh. It's not like "the Bible" didn't exist until Christians started including their preferred gospels as the "new Testament."

So it is possible for Jesus (assuming he existed) to have known the Bible.

However, at the time and place Jesus lived, Torah study was generally beyond the financial means of a carpenter. I find it unlikely that he would have had more than a rudimentary knowledge of the Bible.

Around that time, literacy rates were relatively high in the Jewish community, so it wouldn't surprise me if Jesus (the historical version, not the mythological one) was quite familiar with the contents of the Tanakh. It wasn't likely he owned his own copy when he was a construction grunt, but I think it would be surprising if he hadn't had regular access to it later in life (after building up his following).

 

[Cleon]

Being a carpenter doesn't need to equate to being poor.

True, but the mythos is that he wasn't a skilled craftsman, just a laborer.

Interesting question is what is the likelihood of a carpenter son to become a Rabbi? I'm not familiar with the jewish culture at the time, but was there any barriers that a person would have to becoming a Rabbi based upon thier vocation?

"Rabbi" really just means "master" or "teacher." The idea of ordination - going to seminary and becoming a "recognized" rabbi - is a modern one, evolving over the last couple hundred years. At the time, "Rabbi" was more of an honorific, something people called someone they respected and listened to.

 

[Foster Zygote]

It seems more likely that the "tekton" origin of Jesus was a later fabrication. "See? Jesus was a working shlub just like yous."

 

[I Ratant]

Around that time, literacy rates were relatively high in the Jewish community, so it wouldn't surprise me if Jesus (the historical version, not the mythological one) was quite familiar with the contents of the Tanakh. It wasn't likely he owned his own copy when he was a construction grunt, but I think it would be surprising if he hadn't had regular access to it later in life (after building up his following).

.
ISTR a story that the religious at the "Temple" was astounded by his grasp of theology at the age of 12.

 

[paximperium]

It seems more likely that the "tekton" origin of Jesus was a later fabrication. "See? Jesus was a working shlub just like yous."

He was a hard laborer who did back breaking work. Look at all that hard work:

 

[Hokulele]

.
ISTR a story that the religious at the "Temple" was astounded by his grasp of theology at the age of 12.

There is, but I am fairly skeptical of that one () as it is only recorded in one gospel, and it seems far more likely that the entire tale was fabricated after the fact, much like the myth from the same gospel regarding the census in Galilee.