Truthers and the FDNY

[firecoins]

about 40-45 minutes before the planes hit, he said he saw "fire fighters" enter the building carrying large black "duffel" bags, about a dozen of them.

What he described as men wearing fire fighter uniforms.

Management of the company said it was a "safety drill" and everyone was to stay inside, they were not permitted to leave.

My cousin said when the "fire fighters" left the building, their bags were empty. they had crumpled them up and carrying them in one hand.

IF this indeed occurred why did you not report this to the police on 9/11/01? You didn't call the FBI? You didn't tell the 9/11 commission?

If your cousin was on the 8th floors he was not in a position to see firefighter bringing in black bags full or empty. This sound made up. No one in the lobby saw this. Odd.

you asked various engineers about it? Why would you ask complete strangers with no connection to 9/11 is a specific incident occurred or not?


why did no one else see these firefighters with black bags? There are no other eyewitnesses to such events in a building with 10,000 plus people. Many of these people are alive today.

There are security cameras with tapes of the lobbies that morning. No firefighters with black bags.

When I asked FDNY about this, they claimed no fire fighters were ever at the building until much after the planes hit, and they have no idea what I'm talking about.

FDNY is a large organization. It isn't one person. who did you call?

Please don't insult me or call me a CT or nut, I'm not making any accusations or crazy claims, this was told to me by my cousin on the day he died, please have some respect for that.

Have you read your post? You are making a crazy claim.

No other eyewitnesses or video of what your claiming.

who was your cousin? What company did he work for?

 

[Hokulele]

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the first tower hit the second one to collapse? I agree, this story sounds like shenanigans.

 

[Trojan]

I heard him die on the phone! do you have any idea how horrible that is??

Why would he stay on the phone with you for an hour instead of evacuating if he was only on the 8th floor?

 

[tsig]

Why would he stay on the phone with you for an hour instead of evacuating if he was only on the 8th floor?

I think we have discovered a new bottom to the barrel.

 

[R.Mackey]

The 8th floor was a mechanical floor, with very few occupants. And in WTC 1 there was no damage reported between Floor 8 and the lobby (where there was quite a bit of damage) after impact. The lowest floor with significant damage reported was Floor 17.

Average reported evacuation time from floors under level 42 was a mere 29 minutes.

Sounds like a lie to me.

 

[firecoins]

I do agree though, if fire fighters had been there 40 minutes before the hits, they certainly should have been there immediately after the strikes to help save people, the response time was greater than instantly, so it makes sense it wasn't actual fire fighters.

It makes sense that such a group never existed.

 

[johnny karate]

IF this indeed occurred why did you not report this to the police on 9/11/01? You didn't call the FBI? You didn't tell the 9/11 commission?

Hey that reminds me, I was in Dallas when Kennedy was assassinated and I distinctly remember seeing a shooter on the grassy knoll. I watched him get into his car and drive away afterwards, and I wrote down the license plate number. I also took several photographs.

I always meant to report this to the authorities, but just never got around to it. But now that I've mentioned it on an obscure Internet forum, I believe I can consider my responsibility on this issue met.

 

[The Big Dog]

I just saw a group of men enter my high rise building with big duffel bags! Seriously. I was also told to stay in my office, and not to even think of entering that part of the office until after 3! I saw them leave too, and it was obvious: THE BAGS WERE EMPTY! They were darkly dressed, wearing hats pulled low.

They were pizza delivery men bring the food to the Staff Appreciation lunch. Gonna get some Giordanos this afternoon if they save me any.

 

[johnny karate]

So to be fair, please answer this question:
What physical evidence supports the single column collapse hypothesis of WTC 7?

There is no specific physical evidence to support the single column collapse theory.

If there is none, then you have no logical reason to be biased in favor of single column buckling causing global collapse.

False. In forensic engineering, physical evidence is not always available, and industry professionals consider computer modeling a valid alternative in these situations. An in-depth and highly technical engineering report was released that supports the single column collapse theory of WTC7, and to date, has received no legitimate criticism from the worldwide engineering community that would render its conclusions suspect.

Your turn:
Do you find it plausible that the controlled demolition of 47-story building could happen in front of hundreds of eyewitness, including fire and building safety professionals, without a single one of them realizing it was a controlled demolition?

If your answer is "Yes", please explain why.

If your answer is "No", please explain the complete and total lack of eyewitnesses who reported that WTC7 was a controlled demolition.

 

[FineWine]

my cousin was on the first tower hit. He was up on about the 8th floor or so (he's close enough to see down, but wasn't close enough to get out on time)

I was on the phone with him an hour before the planes hit, we have this daily ritual when he works. it was otherwise a normal day like any other.

about 40-45 minutes before the planes hit, he said he saw "fire fighters" enter the building carrying large black "duffel" bags, about a dozen of them.

What he described as men wearing fire fighter uniforms.

Management of the company said it was a "safety drill" and everyone was to stay inside, they were not permitted to leave.

My cousin said when the "fire fighters" left the building, their bags were empty. they had crumpled them up and carrying them in one hand.

When I asked FDNY about this, they claimed no fire fighters were ever at the building until much after the planes hit, and they have no idea what I'm talking about.

My cousin wouldn't lie or make up a story, especially when I was on the phone with him right up until the buildings collapsed.

I heard him die on the phone! do you have any idea how horrible that is??

So if it wasn't "real" fire fighters, who were they? and why were they dressed as fire fighters? and exactly what were they bringing into the building?
what were they doing?

I've spoken to a dozen PE's and engineers, who saw the buildings collapse and say it looks exactly like a CD to them.

I know nothing about building engineering, or demolition, I don't care for CT crackpots or nutcases.

I'm not making any wild or crazy claims, I would just like to know who these people were and what they were doing.

so far no one has had any reasonable explanation.

I do agree though, if fire fighters had been there 40 minutes before the hits, they certainly should have been there immediately after the strikes to help save people, the response time was greater than instantly, so it makes sense it wasn't actual fire fighters.

so the question remains, who were they? and why?
anyone has any logical explanation, I'd love to hear it.

Please don't insult me or call me a CT or nut, I'm not making any accusations or crazy claims, this was told to me by my cousin on the day he died, please have some respect for that.

Yes, I believe you are making this up. No engineers told you the collapse of either tower looked like a controlled demolition. Your story is heart-wrenching, but almost certainly untrue. Sorry.

 

[FineWine]

First off, I don't sit in front of my computer 24/7, so when you ask me q uestions, polite as they may be, please don't expect an answer within five mins of posting it.

Secondly, I said that the collapse of WTC 7, IMO, was consistent with a CD, and that the official collapse theory has no "physical evidence" to support it. I don't mind the friendly exchange, but when you phrase the question such as you did, you should be prepared to answer the same.

I think the collapse is consistent with a CD due to the rate and symmetry of collapse.

So to be fair, please answer this question:
What physical evidence supports the single column collapse hypothesis of WTC 7? If there is none, then you have no logical reason to be biased in favor of single column buckling causing global collapse.

I'm glad you're back. Now, my first question concerns Larry Silverstein's conversation with the fire chief. Before we can proceed, we have to determine if we are discussing the same conversation. I'm talking about the one where he agrees with the department's assessment and says that in view of the great loss of life, maybe the smartest thing would just be to pull it (the contingent of firefighters/rescue workers). If these are the remarks you called, for some strange reason, "nonsensical" and "dishonest," I would like to know how they could possibly be either.

 

[FineWine]

my cousin was on the first tower hit. He was up on about the 8th floor or so (he's close enough to see down, but wasn't close enough to get out on time)

I was on the phone with him an hour before the planes hit, we have this daily ritual when he works. it was otherwise a normal day like any other.

about 40-45 minutes before the planes hit, he said he saw "fire fighters" enter the building carrying large black "duffel" bags, about a dozen of them.

What he described as men wearing fire fighter uniforms.

Management of the company said it was a "safety drill" and everyone was to stay inside, they were not permitted to leave.

My cousin said when the "fire fighters" left the building, their bags were empty. they had crumpled them up and carrying them in one hand.

When I asked FDNY about this, they claimed no fire fighters were ever at the building until much after the planes hit, and they have no idea what I'm talking about.

My cousin wouldn't lie or make up a story, especially when I was on the phone with him right up until the buildings collapsed.

I heard him die on the phone! do you have any idea how horrible that is??

So if it wasn't "real" fire fighters, who were they? and why were they dressed as fire fighters? and exactly what were they bringing into the building?
what were they doing?

I've spoken to a dozen PE's and engineers, who saw the buildings collapse and say it looks exactly like a CD to them.

I know nothing about building engineering, or demolition, I don't care for CT crackpots or nutcases.

I'm not making any wild or crazy claims, I would just like to know who these people were and what they were doing.

so far no one has had any reasonable explanation.

I do agree though, if fire fighters had been there 40 minutes before the hits, they certainly should have been there immediately after the strikes to help save people, the response time was greater than instantly, so it makes sense it wasn't actual fire fighters.

so the question remains, who were they? and why?
anyone has any logical explanation, I'd love to hear it.

Please don't insult me or call me a CT or nut, I'm not making any accusations or crazy claims, this was told to me by my cousin on the day he died, please have some respect for that.

Here is my problem with forums like this one and debates with "truthers" in general. You notice that it was extremely easy for the people here to conclude that you were not telling the truth. Okay, we know that you were lying, but more important is the fact that YOU know that you were lying. Since you have to make up nonsense to support your beliefs, why do you believe them in the first place? Seriously. I know you won't respond publicly, but why not examine your conscience? You cling to a belief that is built on lies. Doesn't that tell you anything?

 

[BasqueArch]

Why would the evil-doers want to destroy WTC 7?

Here's the answer according to Matt Taibbi of Roling Stone:

"... RUMSFELD: Well, I'm sold on the idea. Let's call the Joint Chiefs, the FAA, the New York and Washington, D.C., fire departments, Rudy Giuliani, all three networks, the families of a thousand fictional airline victims, MI5, the FBI, FEMA, the NYPD, Larry Eagleburger, Osama bin Laden, Noam Chomsky and the fifty thousand other people we'll need to pull this off. There isn't a moment to lose!

BUSH: Don't forget to call all of those Wall Street hotshots who donated $100 million to our last campaign. They'll be thrilled to know that we'll be targeting them for execution as part of our thousand-tentacled modern-day bonehead Reichstag scheme! After all, if we're going to make martyrs -- why not make them out of our campaign paymasters? ****, didn't the Merrill Lynch guys say they needed a refurbishing in their New York offices?

RUMSFELD: Oh, they'll get a refurbishing, all right. Just in time for the "Big Wedding"!

ALL THREE: (cackling) Mwah-hah-hah! ... "

http://tinyurl.com/gtt32

 

[ULTIMA1]

No kidding.

The sheer stupidity of suggesting that ANYONE would go inside the building to cut beams with the intent of bringing it down to prevent fire spreading to other buildings is..... mind boggling. .

I don't think any resuce unit in the FDNY escaped without losing several members in the collapse of 1 & 2. Many NYPD and PAPD ESU cops also trained in rescue also died on 9/11. The idea that these units somehow brought down building 7 later is a joke at best.

Since some of you have proven you cleraly know nothing about what you are talking about i will make it as simple as i can.

You can make a cut in the beams and the put "kicker charges" on the beams to cause the beam to collapse.

 

[beachnut]

...
I've spoken to a dozen PE's and engineers, who saw the buildings collapse and say it looks exactly like a CD to them. ...

So you know a dozen PE's and engineers who are dirt dumb and stupid on 911. You better upgrade to a better clientèle; the people you spoke to are a special kind of stupid.

Name your engineers who are too afraid to speak out.

8 floors up in a 110 story building where most the people above the 8th floor got out. This means you made this up so poorly it is a lie from the beginning.

Your cousin tells you this on 911 45 minutes the MIB delivered the secret bags and they planted the secret stuff and got out before your cousin who could not get out even though the MIB got out in time to set the thermite bags all over the building and your cousin could not get out. This story is the dumbest lie yet; there is a new thread just to discuss your made up failed tripe.

 

[firecoins]

You can make a cut in the beams and the put "kicker charges" on the beams to cause the beam to collapse.

Rescue units don't carry charges.

 

[johnny karate]

I don't think any resuce unit in the FDNY escaped without losing several members in the collapse of 1 & 2. Many NYPD and PAPD ESU cops also trained in rescue also died on 9/11. The idea that these units somehow brought down building 7 later is a joke at best.

Agreed. It's good to see you've finally come around. I guess even a fake NSA analyst can get it right once and a while.

 

[Gavron]

You can make a cut in the beams and the put "kicker charges" on the beams to cause the beam to collapse.

...and you have evidence that this happened with WTC7?

Please show us your evidence of that, Roger. Otherwise, all you are doing is hypothesizing with zero evidence to back your ridiculous claims.

 

[FineWine]

I don't think any resuce unit in the FDNY escaped without losing several members in the collapse of 1 & 2. Many NYPD and PAPD ESU cops also trained in rescue also died on 9/11. The idea that these units somehow brought down building 7 later is a joke at best.

Since some of you have proven you cleraly know nothing about what you are talking about i will make it as simple as i can.

You can make a cut in the beams and the put "kicker charges" on the beams to cause the beam to collapse.

So, why the secrecy? No demolition experts agree with you, and as usual, you are making up nonsense.

 

[Gavron]

Roger cant explain why this was kept a secret. If they had to "pull it" as a safety measure, why cover it up? Show us one shred of evidence it happened.

Making outrageous claims without any proof whatsoever. Typical.