Truthers and the FDNY

[firecoins]

Red is referring to FDNY Captain Currid who has stated he was informed of the impending collapse of WTC7 by someone in OEM. In RedIbis World, two first responders exchanging information during a chaotic event is indicative of a massive conspiracy.

ahh so the other FDNY personnel calling in a potential collapse and a need to pull out are irrelevant. I see.

 

[johnny karate]

As has been described and supported by research many times in the past, word was passed from someone at the OEM to a fire captain on the scene that WTC 7 would collapse. If you study the testimonies of the firefighters the majority of them say that they had received word of the collapse.

So now you're characterizing the FDNY as dupes too stupid to realize whether or not the giant, burning building directly in front of them is in danger of collapse? And too stupid to assess any such information given to them by another source so they must instead accept what they are told without question?

I can't begin to keep up with you. Are the FDNY cowards or are they dupes?

First, the FDNY is not a monolithic entity capable of thinking and acting as a singular unit. It is a group of people.

Ah, I see. The FDNY are both cowards and dupes! It makes perfect sense.

Now, back to the topic you keep avoiding: I'm curious to know if you think this cowardice and stupidity you've attributed to the FDNY ended up being a happy accident for the conspirators, or was it something they planned on? Do you think the FDNY was chosen for their special combination of cowardice and stupidity?

 

[RedIbis]

So now you're characterizing the FDNY as dupes too stupid to realize whether or not the giant, burning building directly in front of them is in danger of collapse? And too stupid to assess any such information given to them by another source so they must instead accept what they are told without question?

I can't begin to keep up with you. Are the FDNY cowards or are they dupes?



Ah, I see. The FDNY are both cowards and dupes! It makes perfect sense.

Now, back to the topic you keep avoiding: I'm curious to know if you think this cowardice and stupidity you've attributed to the FDNY ended up being a happy accident for the conspirators, or was it something they planned on? Do you think the FDNY was chosen for their special combination of cowardice and stupidity?

I'm beginning to see that your insistence on reading "cowardice and stupidity" in every post is a glaring example of projection.

You have no interest in productive and civil discussion, so I will not take any of your posts very seriously. My responses to you will be for sport alone.

 

[tsig]

I'm beginning to see that your insistence on reading "cowardice and stupidity" in every post is a glaring example of projection.

You have no interest in productive and civil discussion, so I will not take any of your posts very seriously. My responses to you will be for sport alone.

Most of us got that way with you a long time age and a rare old sport it has been, hunting the wild Ibis. Here's a sighting

"The Scarlet Ibis (Eudocimus ruber) is a species of ibis that inhabits tropical South America and also Trinidad and Tobago. It is the national bird of Trinidad and is featured on the Trinidad and Tobago coat of arms along with Tobago's national bird, the Rufous-vented Chachalaca."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet_Ibis

 

[johnny karate]

I'm beginning to see that your insistence on reading "cowardice and stupidity" in every post is a glaring example of projection.

If by "projection" you mean applying the exact same standard of deduction you apply when interpreting the statements of Larry Silverstein, the FDNY, and Captain Currid, then you're absolutely correct. You've established that it is unimportant what people explicitly state, but rather what can be inferred from their statements. I am simply applying this same standard to statements you make.

You have no interest in productive and civil discussion, so I will not take any of your posts very seriously. My responses to you will be for sport alone.

I have every interest in a productive and civil discussion. Unfortunately, whenever the subject matter wanders into territory you are uncomfortable addressing, discussion stops and you run away. This forces me and others to make inferences regarding your scant and vague statements on these topics. This is the environment you've created through evasion and intellectual dishonesty. It's no one's fault but your own if you find it distasteful.

Now, if you really want to have an honest discussion, you can start by answering this simple and direct question:
How is it that not a single member of the FDNY has expressed a belief that WTC7 was a controlled demolition, despite the fact that several of them witnessed its collapse firsthand?

 

[sts60]

I see nothing has changed. Red keeps flogging the notion that FDNY was only told of the impending collapse, and didn't conclude on their own that it would fall (this despite independent observations of FDNY members from the rank-and-file on up, including those observing the building coming out of line with a transit). Nor has there been any change to the unavoidable corollary that those FDNY members not too stupid to figure it out are too chicken to bring it up. Nor has changed his signature passive-aggressive diversionary style of trying to claim this, while denying it's what's he's claiming.

Leave the thermal imager on the truck; you don't need it see through this smokescreen.
Yawn.

 

[FineWine]

If by "projection" you mean applying the exact same standard of deduction you apply when interpreting the statements of Larry Silverstein, the FDNY, and Captain Currid, then you're absolutely correct. You've established that it is unimportant what people explicitly state, but rather what can be inferred from their statements. I am simply applying this same standard to statements you make.



I have every interest in a productive and civil discussion. Unfortunately, whenever the subject matter wanders into territory you are uncomfortable addressing, discussion stops and you run away. This forces me and others to make inferences regarding your scant and vague statements on these topics. This is the environment you've created through evasion and intellectual dishonesty. It's no one's fault but your own if you find it distasteful.

Now, if you really want to have an honest discussion, you can start by answering this simple and direct question:
How is it that not a single member of the FDNY has expressed a belief that WTC7 was a controlled demolition, despite the fact that several of them witnessed its collapse firsthand?

I feel like I asked RedIbis a silly question. He said that Silverstein's statements were dishonest and nonsensical and I'm just not getting it. Unless we're talking about two different conversations, all Silverstein did was agree with the fire chief. I apologize if I sound stupid here. I've seen several threads demolishing the "pull it" myth, and given that the fire chief was informing the owner of the building of the department's decision to pull their men, I can't figure out what the "truthers" think is a controversy. Why is Silverstein's agreement with fire chief nonsensical? May I phrase that more clearly: why would ANYONE find Silverstein's agreement nonsensical? How can it be dishonest? Am I the only one here who doesn't follow the "truthers'" line of reasoning?

I'm reminded of a very old joke. Two psychiatrists walk past each other in a hallway. One says, "Good morning." The other thinks, "I wonder what he meant by that."

 

[Gnu World Order]

Hey Red, simple question: Do you think WTC7 was brought down by explosives?

 

[ULTIMA1]

Something people on here seem to keep overlooking. Thier were Fire Rescue units there that have the knowledge and equipment to cut beams for rescue. The Fire Rescue units go into burning and unsafe buildings all the time.

Also do not forget thier were demo teams on the scene too.

 

[FineWine]

Something people on here seem to keep overlooking. Thier were Fire Rescue units there that have the knowledge and equipment to cut beams for rescue. The Fire Rescue units go into burning and unsafe buildings all the time.

Also do not forget thier were demo teams on the scene too.

The fire department established a collapse zone around WTC 7 early in the afternoon. Those of us who were glued to our TV sets that day remember that WTC 7 was described as likely to collapse at any time. The fire chief called the building owner to inform him that the rescue contingent was being pulled from a dangerous environment. You are not seriously suggesting that demo teams could prep a 47-story building in matter of hours.

 

[ULTIMA1]

The fire chief called the building owner to inform him that the rescue contingent was being pulled from a dangerous environment.

WRONG, the firemen were evacuated from the buidling earlier in the day (before the call) as confirmed by statements from 2 fire chiefs, one who later became the fire commander

You are not seriously suggesting that demo teams could prep a 47-story building in matter of hours.

It would not take much to bring down a building that was already partly gutted from fire and debris damage.

Also in an emergency situation it does not take as long to set up a building as it normally does.

 

[FineWine]

WRONG, the firemen were evacuated from the buidling earlier in the day (before the call) as confirmed by statements from 2 fire chiefs, one who later became the fire commander



It would not take much to bring down a building that was already partly gutted from fire and debris damage.

Also in an emergency situation it does not take as long to set up a building as it normally does.

Stop telling people that they are wrong when you never know what you're talking about. Nobody knows exactly when Silverstein and the fire chief spoke except the two men themselves. Maybe the contingent had already been pulled; maybe it was being pulled. Who knows? It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.

Gee, now the building was already "partly gutted from fire and debris damage." Your side keeps pretending that the fires were small, remember? The notion that people were bringing explosives into a burning building is mad.

 

[johnny karate]

The fire department established a collapse zone around WTC 7 early in the afternoon. Those of us who were glued to our TV sets that day remember that WTC 7 was described as likely to collapse at any time. The fire chief called the building owner to inform him that the rescue contingent was being pulled from a dangerous environment. You are not seriously suggesting that demo teams could prep a 47-story building in matter of hours.

He's also suggesting this was all ordered by a FDNY commander for "safety reasons" without explaining why everyone involved decided to keep it a secret from the world. But then again, ULTIMA1 is a pretend NSA analyst, so I guess this would make him an authority on pretend controlled demolitions.

 

[ULTIMA1]

He's also suggesting this was all ordered by a FDNY commander for "safety reasons" without explaining why everyone involved decided to keep it a secret from the world.

If you looked at the authority the fire commander has he can order the demo of a building for safety reasons.

But then again, ULTIMA1 is a pretend NSA analyst, .

Thanks again for showing that you are not intelligent enough or mature enough to figure out and admit that the information i have posted proves who i am and where i work.

 

[johnny karate]

WRONG, the firemen were evacuated from the buidling earlier in the day (before the call) as confirmed by statements from 2 fire chiefs, one who later became the fire commander

It would not take much to bring down a building that was already partly gutted from fire and debris damage.

Also in an emergency situation it does not take as long to set up a building as it normally does.

Don't forget the part where everyone involved in this perfectly innocuous building demolition decided to lie to the whole world about it. That's the part of your demented fantasy that makes me laugh hardest.

 

[FineWine]

If you looked at the authority the fire commander has he can order the demo of a building for safety reasons.




Thanks again for showing that you are not intelligent enough or mature enough to figure out and admit that the information i have posted proves who i am and where i work.

No power on earth can prep a 47-story building in a few hours. A team of demolition professionals would require weeks.

If you work for NSA, and you're not a janitor or a security guard, I fear for this nation.

 

[ULTIMA1]

No power on earth can prep a 47-story building in a few hours. A team of demolition professionals would require weeks.

It only requires weeks in a normal situation, in an emergency situation you do not use the same process. But who said it was brought down with explosives?

Also as stated it would not take much to bring down a building that is already weakened from fire and debris damage.

 

[johnny karate]

If you looked at the authority the fire commander has he can order the demo of a building for safety reasons.

Super. Now all you have to do is prove this is what happened to WTC7 and then explain why everyone involved decided to lie about it. Report back to pretend NSA Headquarters and let us know what you find out.

 

[ULTIMA1]

Super. Now all you have to do is prove this is what happened to WTC7 and then explain why everyone involved decided to lie about it. Report back to pretend NSA Headquarters and let us know what you find out.

Thanks again for showing that you are not intelligent enough or mature enough to figure out and admit that the information i have posted proves who i am and where i work.

 

[johnny karate]

Thanks again for showing that you are not intelligent enough or mature enough to figure out and admit that the information i have posted proves who i am and where i work.

Please stay on topic. The fact that you pretend to be an NSA analyst is not the point of this discussion. There is already an active thread dealing with this.

What's being discussed here is why everyone involved in the perfectly innocuous demolition of WTC7 decided to lie to the world about it. You keep dodging this issue for some reason.