Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[zooterkin]

If people complain that the Jesus story is too hard to believe but then claim they believe 10 billion trillion stars and all the space in the universe came from something smaller than one atom...

Surely that's infinitely more believable than saying it came from nothing at all?

 

[zooterkin]

Ah, the KK challenge. Doc isn't strictly limited to preaching like KK is, so there is a chance he can be persuaded to read a book. I guess I'd better skip up to the current page and find out what happened.

It was tried; someone even offered to send him the book, but he declined, if I recall correctly.

 

[six7s]

Nominationated.

Thank you!

Only time will tell if the intended audience will consider it, let alone accept it...

I ain't holding my breath

But thanks, anyhoo

 

[Simon39759]

And has if at that size it was make of atoms.

Paul

considering that time and space were just beginning to expand, size is of little relevance...

 

[six7s]

size is of little relevance...

Thats not what many of the emails addressed to me say

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[Simon39759]

If your posting lasts for more than 4 hours, start a new thread right away.

 

[Marcus]

That's because children of God do not buy the lies of Satan any longer unlike many of you. God is light and truth and in him there is no darkness!

Sorry, Kathy, but Satan is purely a Christian concept. If you are going to absorb any information at all here, you should at least be able to understand that atheists don't believe in any supernatural beings, not god, not the spagetti monster, and not satan.

 

[Marcus]

It was tried; someone even offered to send him the book, but he declined, if I recall correctly.

Too bad. I realize you are informationally challenged, Doc, but this is like putting up a billboard. No one can make you learn anything, no way, no how, even on a subject you wish to discuss on this forum.

 

[DOC]

Yes, that's the way it is. Science and a whole host of observations and evidence support the Big Bang theory...

Yes, and a lot of people accept (on faith since they don't understand the specifics) this vague "theory" called the Big Bang. But I still maintain that most people don't understand that all the matter of about 10 billion trillion stars including all the "space" in the universe came from something "smaller than one atom" according to the theory. Since they don't understand the specifics of this, their belief is based on faith just like most Christians belief is based on faith.

 

[DOC]

It was tried; someone even offered to send him the book, but he declined, if I recall correctly.

I also said, feel free to bring in any great info from this book, and lets talk about it. Nobody is stopping anyone from bringing in info or posting websites. I did that with Geisler's book why can't we do it with someone else's book.

 

[joobz]

Since they don't understand the specifics of this their belief is based on faith just like most Christians belief is based on faith.

If it makes you feel better to equate the best christianity has to offer to the worst that science does, be my guest.

Personally, if your generalization was true, I think that it'd be more of an indictment of our education system than a criticism of science itself.

 

[six7s]

Sorry, Kathy, but Satan is purely a Christian concept.

True

However, the 'New Testament writers' wouldn't be telling the truth if they said they invented him without recourse to plagiarism:

wikipedia.org: Devil#Judaism

Devil

Judaism

In Judaism there is no concept of a devil like in mainstream Christianity or Islam. In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan (השָׂטָן) means "the adversary"[2] or the obstacle, or even "the prosecutor" (recognizing that God is viewed as the ultimate Judge).

In the book of Job (Iyov), ha-satan is the title, not the proper name, of an angel submitted to God; he is the divine court's chief prosecutor. In Judaism ha-satan does not make evil, rather points out to God the evil inclinations and actions of humankind. In essence ha-satan has no power unless humans do evil things. After God points out Job's piety, ha-satan asks for permission to test the faith of Job. The righteous man is afflicted with loss of family, property, and later, health, but he still stays faithful to God. At the conclusion of this book God appears as a whirlwind, explaining to all that divine justice is inscrutable. In the epilogue Job's possessions are restored and he has a second family to "replace" the one that died.

In the Torah, ha-satan is mentioned several times. The main time is during the incident of the golden calf. As the source of people's evil inclination, or yetser harah, he is responsible for the Israelites building the golden calf while Moses was on Mount Sinai receiving the Torah from God. In the book of 1 Chronicles 21:1, ha-satan incites David to an unlawful census.

In fact, the Book of Isaiah, Job, Ecclesiastes, and Deuteronomy all have passages in which God is credited for exercising sovereign control over both good and evil.

I find it interesting to note that, as with deities, devils have been invented in many cultures to explain away the bad stuff

 

[six7s]

Yes, and a lot of people accept (on faith since they don't understand the specifics) this vague "theory" called the Big Bang. But I still maintain that most people don't understand that all the matter of about 10 billion trillion stars including all the "space" in the universe came from something "smaller than one atom" according to the theory. Since they don't understand the specifics of this their belief is based on faith just like most Christians belief is based on faith.

Yeah... yeah... yeah... change the record, this one's scratched

Seriously DOC, you have made your point: you are unwilling to think in order to mitigate your ignorance

Time to move on

 

[six7s]

I also said, feel free to bring in any great info from this book, and lets talk about it. Nobody is stopping anyone from bringing in info or posting websites. I did that with Geisler's book why can't we do it with someone else's book.

No

You brought in disinformation

Please, stop pretending that you have even one leg to stand on - we can all see that you're on the bones of your arse... the subjects of your arguments remind me of another fictional character

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhRUe-gz690&feature=fvst​

 

[joobz]

I also said, feel free to bring in any great info from this book, and lets talk about it. Nobody is stopping anyone from bringing in info or posting websites. I did that with Geisler's book why can't we do it with someone else's book.

Hokulele has made a request to do just this. Why are you unwilling to take her up on the offer?

Otherwise, I would once again recommend Simon Singh's Big Bang. In fact, my offer for a challenge still stands. I will read and comment on a work of your choice if you read and comment on this book. Any local library will carry or order it if you do not wish to purchase it.

 

[Paulhoff]

Yes, and a lot of people accept (on faith since they don't understand the specifics) this vague "theory" called the Big Bang. But I still maintain that most people don't understand that all the matter of about 10 billion trillion stars including all the "space" in the universe came from something "smaller than one atom" according to the theory. Since they don't understand the specifics of this their belief is based on faith just like most Christians belief is based on faith.

No, just because someone doesn’t understand something it is still not based on Faith. If one takes the time, one can find the information on it, and make sense with what has been and is being observed.

Paul

 

[paximperium]

Yes, and a lot of people accept (on faith since they don't understand the specifics) this vague "theory" called the Big Bang. But I still maintain that most people don't understand that all the matter of about 10 billion trillion stars including all the "space" in the universe came from something "smaller than one atom" according to the theory. Since they don't understand the specifics of this their belief is based on faith just like most Christians belief is based on faith.

False Equivocation.

Many accept the Big Bang Theory based on "trust". They trust the word and works of scientists since they are experts and have evidence to back up their claims. These claims can be looked into if they care to study.

Christians accept their religion based on "faith" and some measure of "trust" as well. A blind faith based on stories and some measure of blind trust that their priests/reverend/pope etc. know what they are talking about when in fact they don't. There is no way to look into these claims even if you study, just more self-delusion.

So no. They are not equivalent. It is just a rather sad indictment of the mental laziness of humanity. It still does not in any way reverse the fact that your Arguments from Incredulity/Ignorance/Popularity is invalid.

 

[Marcus]

Yes, and a lot of people accept (on faith since they don't understand the specifics) this vague "theory" called the Big Bang. But I still maintain that most people don't understand that all the matter of about 10 billion trillion stars including all the "space" in the universe came from something "smaller than one atom" according to the theory. Since they don't understand the specifics of this, their belief is based on faith just like most Christians belief is based on faith.

Big Bang theory is based on evidence, your religion is based on faith, regardless of how many people understand what about each.

You are also completly wrong about how many people know about the basic concepts behind current cosmology. Even more people understand that Biblical cosmology is utter nonsense.

 

[Marcus]

True

However, the 'New Testament writers' wouldn't be telling the truth if they said they invented him without recourse to plagiarism:

wikipedia.org: Devil#Judaism



I find it interesting to note that, as with deities, devils have been invented in many cultures to explain away the bad stuff

Brief derail, do Jews believe in a fire and brimstone, Kathy-type hell?

 

[DOC]

False Equivocation.

Many accept the Big Bang Theory based on "trust". They trust the word and works of scientists since they are experts and have evidence to back up their claims. These claims can be looked into if they care to study.

Christians accept their religion based on "faith" and some measure of "trust" as well. A blind faith based on stories and some measure of blind trust that their priests/reverend/pope etc. know what they are talking about when in fact they don't. There is no way to look into these claims even if you study, just more self-delusion.

(boldness added)

In case you haven't noticed this thread has very little to do with faith. It's about such things as history, archeology, and logic. That's why I assume it was taken out of the religion section and put in the history section.