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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Ichneumonwasp said:
I think he was being sarcastic -- that Jesus message of love was not the cause of later atrocities that might have been committed in his name.
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This was my take.

BUt of course, I could easily say:
It is the fault of "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword" and "it's ok to beat slaves" Jesus.
 
joobz said:
This was my take.

BUt of course, I could easily say:
It is the fault of "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword" and "it's ok to beat slaves" Jesus.
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John Dominic Crossan has an interesting take on some of those passages. He thinks that Jesus' original message was radically egalitarian and that he wanted to abolish all the institutions that might interfere -- including the family. His evidence is a close reading of the passage -- notice that the opposing family members always cross generational lines "father against son", etc. with no "mother against father" or "cousin against cousin" bits.

Crossan thinks that Jesus wanted to do away with authority, so that everyone could live together and share equally. I'm not sure how he deals with the "render unto Caesar" line, though.
 
Ichneumonwasp said:
Crossan thinks that Jesus wanted to do away with authority, so that everyone could live together and share equally. I'm not sure how he deals with the "render unto Caesar" line, though.
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And let's not forget the "I've not come to destroy the laws but fulfill them line." Considering that Honoring your mother and father are a big part of the 10 commandments, I'd have to say that Jesus' message isn't clear.
 
joobz said:
And let's not forget the "I've not come to destroy the laws but fulfill them line." Considering that Honoring your mother and father are a big part of the 10 commandments, I'd have to say that Jesus' message isn't clear.
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Which lends credence to him being human, but not divine. If he were divine, wouldn't he have a better sense of overall purpose? Something approaching a, for lack of better term, Divine Plan*?


















*Divine Plan not available in all States. Some conditions may apply. Please Plan responsibly.
 
joobz said:
Ok.
Let's pretend that Rome was the most evil time ever, ever.
Are you saying that God was powerless to change it dramaticall? I mean the omnipotent/omniscient benevolent creator of all and everything had to rely on sending someone down who would speak in riddles and criptic messages to get his message across? And even then, he'd avoid making any difinitive claims on things like slavery, women's rights, ...
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Well god did destroy Rome...after it was already Christian. His aim was a bit off, he was just a few centuries off.
 
DOC said:
That's fine, but you don't have any proof.

ETA: Oh, now I see, you were referring to my # of posts. You've got the right to your opinion.
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Are you feeling quite well? I'm concerned that you didn't recognise your own post count, which is something you normally seem keenly aware of.
 
zooterkin said:
Are you feeling quite well? I'm concerned that you didn't recognise your own post count, which is something you normally seem keenly aware of.
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I've not seen anyone on this forum bleat about their post count as much as DOC does. It's quite sad, really.
 
Fireshadow said:
I've not seen anyone on this forum bleat about their post count as much as DOC does. It's quite sad, really.
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Like most followers of woo, DOC appears to think that he will reach some critical mass of bad arguments and faulty logic where his hundreds of BS posts will collapse like a juvenile star into some shining, irrefutable, truth.

The only thing he created so far is a black hole of religious inanity.
 
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DOC said:
Remember Christ lived in an evil time. I think what Christ was saying is that there would be no easy way to turn the sinful world around, you're going to have to be able to give all for the cause, even if it meant to go against your family members. And obviously, as seen by the many martyrs, many did give all for the cause.
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There is pleanty of evidence for the New Testament Doc but many here on jref just seem to not have an ear to hear. It does make me very sad but I will encourage you to keep up the good fight of faith. I myself am sold out for Christ come what may! Jesus is Lord!!
 
kurious_kathy said:
There is pleanty of evidence for the New Testament Doc but many here on jref just seem to not have an ear to hear. It does make me very sad but I will encourage you to keep up the good fight of faith. I myself am sold out for Christ come what may! Jesus is Lord!!
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Wow, you use a lot of constant self reinforcement.
 
kurious_kathy said:
There is pleanty of evidence for the New Testament
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No.
kurious_kathy said:
Doc but many here on jref just seem to not have an ear to hear.
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what does this metaphor mean?
kurious_kathy said:
It does make me very sad but I will encourage you to keep up the good fight of faith.
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Another metaphor. What good fight? the one that requires clever semantics and intentional missrepresentation of facts to make a point?
kurious_kathy said:
I myself am sold out for Christ come what may! Jesus is Lord!!
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Did you give up the use of proper punctuation and clarity of thought in that sale?
 
joobz said:
What good fight?
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You know, Killing all the followers of Islam, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Pagans etc.


Deuteronomy

17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,
17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel:
17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
 
joobz said:
And let's not forget the "I've not come to destroy the laws but fulfill them line." Considering that Honoring your mother and father are a big part of the 10 commandments, I'd have to say that Jesus' message isn't clear.
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You can still honor your mother and father and be against their world or religious view. For example you might work for democracy because you believe that is in the best interest of the world but you parents might like a strong totalitarian type state. Because you are against their world view, doesn't mean you can't honor them.

The world was messed up in Jesus' era, even more so than now. Change would not come easy; and relative against relative sometimes might have been the only way to burst forth from the mess the world was in.
 
DOC said:
You can still honor your mother and father and be against their world or religious view. For example you might work for democracy because you believe that is in the best interest of the world but you parents might like a strong totalitarian type state. Because you are against their world view, doesn't mean you can't honor them.
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So, in other words, a christian can be against slavery but still worship Jesus, even though he condoned the practice.

That's the first logical argument for explaining how christians can be against slavery.

Thanks!
 
DOC said:
Remember Christ lived in an evil time.
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DOC said:
The world was messed up in Jesus' era, even more so than now. Change would not come easy; and relative against relative sometimes might have been the only way to burst forth from the mess the world was in.
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Really?



Seems to me the world was getting along just fine without the meddling of your apocryphal, self-righteous, "messiah."

(OK, Monty Python hardly counts as a primary source, but I've never known them not to do their homework when making a comedic point.)
 
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