Merged 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[MikeW]

When a phone calls another phone the provider directs say one seven-digit number to another seven digit number. Very very precise stuff. Would yoou care to tell me how the two seven digit numbers are conjoined and only one is remembered ? In FOUR calls ?

Irrelevant. You are arguing that the "official story" has been changed by the Moussaoui trial exhibit.

In the 9/11 Commission Report it says there were four calls from Flight 77 to an "unknown number", and that the FBI believes these were from Barbara Olson.

The Moussaoui trial exhibit also says there were four calls to an "unknown number". If they'd attributed the calls to someone else, then why not say that here? They haven't, so there's no reason to believe the FBI's position has changed.

 

[bill smith]

Irrelevant. You are arguing that the "official story" has been changed by the Moussaoui trial exhibit.

In the 9/11 Commission Report it says there were four calls from Flight 77 to an "unknown number", and that the FBI believes these were from Barbara Olson.

The Moussaoui trial exhibit also says there were four calls to an "unknown number". If they'd attributed the calls to someone else, then why not say that here? They haven't, so there's no reason to believe the FBI's position has changed.

It's all in here Mike. There are hundreds of articles about this empirical evidence all over the net if you want to google for it. In the interests of the Truth you should do .

''However, although Ted Olson's report of phone calls from his wife has been a central pillar of the official account of 9/11, this report has been completely undermined''


''The most serious official contradiction of Ted Olson's story came in 2006 at the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called 20th hijacker. The evidence presented to this trial by the FBI included a report on phone calls from all four 9/11 flights. In its report on American Flight 77, the FBI report attributed only one call to Barbara Olson and it was an "unconnected call," which (of course) lasted "0 seconds." 9 According to the FBI, therefore, Ted Olson did not receive a single call from his wife using either a cell phone or an onboard phone.
Back on 9/11, the FBI itself had interviewed Olson. A report of that interview indicates that Olson told the FBI agents that his wife had called him twice from Flight 77. 10 And yet the FBI's report on calls from Flight 77, presented in 2006, indicated that no such calls occurred.
This was an amazing development: The FBI is part of the Department of Justice, and yet its report undermined the well-publicized claim of the DOJ's former solicitor general that he had received two calls from his wife on 9/11.''
'
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0804/S00104.htm

 

[MikeW]

It's all in here Mike.

That's not "evidence", it's just David Ray Griffin making the same baseless allegation. And if you look, you'll see his deception: he ignores the four calls to an "unknown number", just as you do.

Why? Because he can't point to the actual evidence that says the FBI have changed their view on the origin of these calls. Just as you can't, because no such evidence exists.

The reality is that the four calls to an "unknown number" were assumed to be from Barbara Olson at the time of the report, there's nothing in the Moussaoui exhibit to change this, and David Ray Griffin has lied about it to help sell his book.

 

[Brainster]

It's all in here Mike. There are hundreds of articles about this empirical evidence all over the net if you want to google for it. In the interests of the Truth you should do.

LOL, lecturing Mike on looking stuff up? What's next, teaching Alex Rodriguez how to hit a baseball?

 

[BigAl]

''However, although Ted Olson's report of phone calls from his wife has been a central pillar of the official account of 9/11,

No. The Olson phone call is just one of millions of little interlocking bits of evidence that fit the basic story; 19 Islamists etc....

Each bit of evidence is supported by lower layers of detail and if you claim that the Olsen call didn't happen, you have to explain how all that supporting data got there and how all the people that know about that data are sudenly part of a conspiracy.

Each bit of evidence is interlocked to all the other evidence. You can't pick and choose without explaining away the lower layers of evidence that support it.

 

[bill smith]

That's not "evidence", it's just David Ray Griffin making the same baseless allegation. And if you look, you'll see his deception: he ignores the four calls to an "unknown number", just as you do.

Why? Because he can't point to the actual evidence that says the FBI have changed their view on the origin of these calls. Just as you can't, because no such evidence exists.

The reality is that the four calls to an "unknown number" were assumed to be from Barbara Olson at the time of the report, there's nothing in the Moussaoui exhibit to change this, and David Ray Griffin has lied about it to help sell his book.

Let's nail this down. Are you saying that the FBI at the Moussaoui trial in 2006 did NOT say that the Barbara Olsen call was 'unconnected' and therefore lasted 0 (zero) seconds ? Meaning automatically that Ted was lying about he call(s) ?

 

[beachnut]

Irrelevant. You are arguing that the "official story" has been changed by the Moussaoui trial exhibit.

In the 9/11 Commission Report it says there were four calls from Flight 77 to an "unknown number", and that the FBI believes these were from Barbara Olson.

The Moussaoui trial exhibit also says there were four calls to an "unknown number". If they'd attributed the calls to someone else, then why not say that here? They haven't, so there's no reason to believe the FBI's position has changed.

911Truth can't figure this out; And it does not mean anything.

 

[MikeW]

Let's nail this down. Are you saying that the FBI at the Moussaoui trial in 2006 did NOT say that the Barbara Olsen call was 'unconnected' and therefore lasted 0 (zero) seconds ? Meaning automatically that Ted was lying about he call(s) ?

What I'm saying is this.

The "official story" says that there were most likely four connected calls from Barbara Olson to her husband's office, two of which reached him.

The American Airlines records can't identify who made those calls or where they went, however the FBI believe they were all from Barbara Olson.

The source for this is not solely Ted Olson.

We have the airfone records, for instance (here), which includes a call made by an operator.

We have an FBI mention of an AT&T operator (they handled the airfones for Flight 77) called Mercy Lorenzo who said she received a call from a female on Flight 77 who wanted to be transferred to her husband in Washington (one oddity with this, reportedly she said he was a "sergeant"). Source

We have the FBI statement of Lori Lynn Keyton, who worked in Olson's office. She said, for instance:

Keyton then received a collect call from a live operator. The operator advised that there was an emergency collect call from Barbara Olson for Ted Olson. Keyton advised that she would accept the call. Barbara Olson was put through and sounded hysterical. Barbara Olson said, "Can you tell Ted..." Keyton cut her off and said "I'll put him on the line."
http://911myths.com/index.php/Image:Team7_Box13_FlightCallNotes302s.pdf

So, we have multiple reasons to believe that Barbara Olson made several calls from Flight 77.

Now, the Moussaoui trial did add details of two more unconnected calls, one of which was attributed to Olson. But where's the logic in saying that because the FBI include this extra information, it now means that the four calls to an "unknown number" were from someone else? There is none: it's nonsense.

The reality is that the evidence continues to show that Barbara Olson made several calls from Flight 77 to her husband, two of which got through. And not one word of Griffin's lies will change that.

 

[bill smith]

What I'm saying is this.

The "official story" says that there were most likely four connected calls from Barbara Olson to her husband's office, two of which reached him.

The American Airlines records can't identify who made those calls or where they went, however the FBI believe they were all from Barbara Olson.

The source for this is not solely Ted Olson.

We have the airfone records, for instance (here), which includes a call made by an operator.

We have an FBI mention of an AT&T operator (they handled the airfones for Flight 77) called Mercy Lorenzo who said she received a call from a female on Flight 77 who wanted to be transferred to her husband in Washington (one oddity with this, reportedly she said he was a "sergeant"). Source

We have the FBI statement of Lori Lynn Keyton, who worked in Olson's office. She said, for instance:



So, we have multiple reasons to believe that Barbara Olson made several calls from Flight 77.

Now, the Moussaoui trial did add details of two more unconnected calls, one of which was attributed to Olson. But where's the logic in saying that because the FBI include this extra information, it now means that the four calls to an "unknown number" were from someone else? There is none: it's nonsense.

The reality is that the evidence continues to show that Barbara Olson made several calls from Flight 77 to her husband, two of which got through. And not one word of Griffin's lies will change that.

When you make a collect call to someone they agree to accept the charges and their number- especially in the case of collect calls- is recorded . Otherwise who would you bill ? Those four calls were all to 'unknown numbers'.

 

[bill smith]

What I'm saying is this.

The "official story" says that there were most likely four connected calls from Barbara Olson to her husband's office, two of which reached him.

The American Airlines records can't identify who made those calls or where they went, however the FBI believe they were all from Barbara Olson.

The source for this is not solely Ted Olson.

We have the airfone records, for instance (here), which includes a call made by an operator.

We have an FBI mention of an AT&T operator (they handled the airfones for Flight 77) called Mercy Lorenzo who said she received a call from a female on Flight 77 who wanted to be transferred to her husband in Washington (one oddity with this, reportedly she said he was a "sergeant"). Source

We have the FBI statement of Lori Lynn Keyton, who worked in Olson's office. She said, for instance:



So, we have multiple reasons to believe that Barbara Olson made several calls from Flight 77.

Now, the Moussaoui trial did add details of two more unconnected calls, one of which was attributed to Olson. But where's the logic in saying that because the FBI include this extra information, it now means that the four calls to an "unknown number" were from someone else? There is none: it's nonsense.

The reality is that the evidence continues to show that Barbara Olson made several calls from Flight 77 to her husband, two of which got through. And not one word of Griffin's lies will change that.

And you DO need to answer this vital question Mike.

Are you saying that the FBI at the Moussaoui trial in 2006 did NOT say that the Barbara Olsen call was 'unconnected' and therefore lasted 0 (zero) seconds ? Meaning automatically that Ted was lying about he call(s) ?

 

[MikeW]

When you make a collect call to someone they agree to accept the charges and their number- especially in the case of collect calls- is recorded . Otherwise who would you bill ? Those four calls were all to 'unknown numbers'.

Irrelevant. What we're arguing here isn't why the numbers were unknown, it's whether Olson's account was contradicted by the Moussaoui trial exhibit. And it was not. The 9/11 Commission pointed to four calls to "unknown numbers" and said they were all believed to be from Olson. The Moussaoui trial exhibit does not contradict that.

In fact, if you read the stipulation on Flight 77 to the trial you find this:

19 At 9:15 a.m. and at 9:26 a.m., Flight 77 passenger
20 Barbara Olson called her husband, Ted Olson, and spoke to him for
21 about one minute before the call was cut off. Barbara Olson
22 reported that the flight had been hijacked by hijackers wielding
23 knives and box cutters and that all the passengers were in the
24 back of the plane.
25 At 9:20 a.m. and 9:31 a.m., Barbara Olson again called

331
1 and spoke to her husband, Ted Olson. She reported that the pilot
2 had announced that the flight had been hijacked. Ted Olson asked
3 Barbara her location, and she replied that the plane was flying
4 over houses. Ted Olson told his wife of the two previous
5 hijackings and crashes.
http://cryptome.org/usa-v-zm-030706-02.htm

So the calls were accepted by both the prosecution and the defence in the Moussaoui trial.

 

[MikeW]

And you DO need to answer this vital question Mike.

Are you saying that the FBI at the Moussaoui trial in 2006 did NOT say that the Barbara Olsen call was 'unconnected' and therefore lasted 0 (zero) seconds ? Meaning automatically that Ted was lying about he call(s) ?

Read what I wrote again. I've accepted they added additional details regarding two unconnected calls. I dispute that adding these magically means the other four calls were somehow made by someone else.

 

[beachnut]

Irrelevant. What we're arguing here isn't why the numbers were unknown, it's whether Olson's account was contradicted by the Moussaoui trial exhibit. And it was not. The 9/11 Commission pointed to four calls to "unknown numbers" and said they were all believed to be from Olson. The Moussaoui trial exhibit does not contradict that.

In fact, if you read the stipulation on Flight 77 to the trial you find this:



So the calls were accepted by both the prosecution and the defence in the Moussaoui trial.

Why has 911Truth failed to provide a scenario for what their argument means on this point?

Pure poppycock is all 911Truth believers like Bill can handle. Reality and the material you hand to Bill will go over his head and he has no clue what he would do with his delusion in the first place.

 

[twinstead]

When you make a collect call to someone they agree to accept the charges and their number- especially in the case of collect calls- is recorded . Otherwise who would you bill ? Those four calls were all to 'unknown numbers'.

So, Bill, are you basing your entire argument on the fact that you just can't understand how they could be unknown? Were they collect calls?

 

[bill smith]

Irrelevant. What we're arguing here isn't why the numbers were unknown, it's whether Olson's account was contradicted by the Moussaoui trial exhibit. And it was not. The 9/11 Commission pointed to four calls to "unknown numbers" and said they were all believed to be from Olson. The Moussaoui trial exhibit does not contradict that.

In fact, if you read the stipulation on Flight 77 to the trial you find this:



So the calls were accepted by both the prosecution and the defence in the Moussaoui trial.

This is what was said on evidence:
20 Barbara Olson called her husband, Ted Olson, and spoke to him for
21 about one minute before the call was cut off.

At 9:20 a.m. and 9:31 a.m., Barbara Olson again called
331
1 and spoke to her husband, Ted Olson. She reported that the pilot
2 had announced that the flight had been hijacked. Ted Olson asked
3 Barbara her location, and she replied that the plane was flying
4 over houses. Ted Olson told his wife of the two previous
5 hijackings and crashes.

This is what the FBI said at the same trial:
In its report on American Flight 77, the FBI report attributed only one call to Barbara Olson and it was an "unconnected call," which (of course) lasted "0 seconds." 9 According to the FBI, therefore, Ted Olson did not receive a single call from his wife using either a cell phone or an onboard phone.

The FBI are the informed experts in this case having invesyigated his case for more than 5 years at the time of the trial.

Are you invalidating the FBI's statement or saying that this statement does not utterly contradict the 9/11 commission ?

 

[six7s]

Hmm, not sure what that means? And of course I wasn't asking you to "STFU", just trying to explain why HTML Tidy wouldn't work in my situation, but it seems either you're missing my point, or I'm miunderstanding yours...?

I was volunteering to STFU - followed by a - merely to indicate that I'm more than willing to let this thread get back, if not 'on track', at least to wherever its sorta heading...

Likewise, my 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' was merely an attempt to use a smidgen of self-deprecating humour to indicate I humbly acknowledge that I'd been dumb enough to assume that I knew what I was talking about

Seriously, I'm happy to let this thread get back to... well... whatever it is its ostensibly aiming at

 

[MikeW]

This is what was said on evidence:
20 Barbara Olson called her husband, Ted Olson, and spoke to him for
21 about one minute before the call was cut off.

At 9:20 a.m. and 9:31 a.m., Barbara Olson again called
331
1 and spoke to her husband, Ted Olson. She reported that the pilot
2 had announced that the flight had been hijacked. Ted Olson asked
3 Barbara her location, and she replied that the plane was flying
4 over houses. Ted Olson told his wife of the two previous
5 hijackings and crashes.

That's what the prosecution and defence agreed, yes.

This is what the FBI said at the same trial:
In its report on American Flight 77, the FBI report attributed only one call to Barbara Olson and it was an "unconnected call," which (of course) lasted "0 seconds." 9 According to the FBI, therefore, Ted Olson did not receive a single call from his wife using either a cell phone or an onboard phone.

No, that's David Ray Griffin's statement. And once again he doesn't mention the four calls to an unknown number, because he knows it would weaken his case, and he is a lying fraud.

So, we still have no reason to believe that the FBI have changed their view that those four calls were made by Barbara Olson to Ted Olson's office. Isn't it about time you swallowing Griffin's lies, Bill? At least make some pretence of being interested in the truth.

 

[MikeW]

I was volunteering to STFU...

Ah, okay! I just wasn't sure if I'd offended you somehow. My turn to STFU now.

 

[bill smith]

That's what the prosecution and defence agreed, yes.


No, that's David Ray Griffin's statement. And once again he doesn't mention the four calls to an unknown number, because he knows it would weaken his case, and he is a lying fraud.

So, we still have no reason to believe that the FBI have changed their view that those four calls were made by Barbara Olson to Ted Olson's office. Isn't it about time you swallowing Griffin's lies, Bill? At least make some pretence of being interested in the truth.

Olsen's secretary said she rceived a rquest to accept a collect call from Barbara and actually says she spoke to her. Collect calls are always carefully logged for billing purposes. Otherwise the phone company wuld not know who to bill. Yet the 9/11 commission says that all four of rhese calls were to 'unknown numbers'. Therefore those calls were not from Barbara Olsen.

At the Moussaui trial the 9/11 commission calls timeline was used and apparently accepted by both sides for some unknown reason considering that the FBI now said that they could confirm that Barbara had only called Ted one time and that the call was of 0 (zero) seconds duration. Zero seconds means that Ted did not speak to Barbara at all and lied when he said he did. The FBI statement makes that abundently clear.

 

[twinstead]

Olsen's secretary said she rceived a rquest to accept a collect call from Barbara and actually says she spoke to her. Collect calls are always carefully logged for billing purposes. Otherwise the phone company wuld not know who to bill. Yet the 9/11 commission says that all four of rhese calls were to 'unknown numbers'. Therefore those calls were not from barbara Olsen.

At the Moussaui trial the 9/11 commission calls timeline was used and apparently accepted by both sides for some unknown reason considering that the FBI now said that they could confirm that Barbara had only called Ted one time and that the call was of 0 (zero) seconds duration. Zero seconds means that Ted did not speak to Barbara at all and lied when he said he did. The FBI statement makes that abundently clear.

So, maybe the defense team was "in on it", huh bill?