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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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That's an optimistic question. She's never read anything else you've linked her to.


Good point.

Ah well, maybe it will inspire others to read that site, just as the previous challenge thread inspired others to read Ehrman's God's Problem - How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question - Why We Suffer. That book can be found on Amazon here. I was really hoping she would have accepted my latest challenge which would have involved her listening to one of Stephen Jay Gould's collections of essays such as Ever Since Darwin, The Panda's Thumb, or even The Book of Life, which he edited rather than wrote. Granted, most of these are pretty dated by now, but they do serve as a decent introduction to evolutionary theory without being hostile to people of faith.

Of course, she couldn't accept such a challenge, after seeing how successful the other challenge was in exposing more people to Ehrman's work. It is a shame that I won't have a similar platform to introduce people to Gould...
 
Hokulele, The Bible is all about Jesus and his divinity, have you been paying attention when you say you read it?


Let's examine that statement. I'll choose a few passages and we'll look at them. Perhaps you could explain how they relate to Jesus' divinity? Or any passage from Jewish scripture?


First, from Genesis, Chapter 30:

[35] But that day Laban removed the he-goats that were striped and spotted, and all the she-goats that were speckled and spotted, every one that had white on it, and every lamb that was black, and put them in charge of his sons;
[36] and he set a distance of three days' journey between himself and Jacob; and Jacob fed the rest of Laban's flock.
[37]
Then Jacob took fresh rods of poplar and almond and plane, and peeled white streaks in them, exposing the white of the rods.


[38] He set the rods which he had peeled in front of the flocks in the runnels, that is, the watering troughs, where the flocks came to drink. And since they bred when they came to drink,
[39] the flocks bred in front of the rods and so the flocks brought forth striped, speckled, and spotted.
[40] And Jacob separated the lambs, and set the faces of the flocks toward the striped and all the black in the flock of Laban; and he put his own droves apart, and did not put them with Laban's flock.
[41] Whenever the stronger of the flock were breeding Jacob laid the rods in the runnels before the eyes of the flock, that they might breed among the rods,
[42] but for the feebler of the flock he did not lay them there; so the feebler were Laban's, and the stronger Jacob's.
[43] Thus the man grew exceedingly rich, and had large flocks, maidservants and menservants, and camels and asses.


Seems like Jacob believes in some weird form of Lamarkism, but no mention of Jesus as god or not as god. Maybe you could help me out here?

OK, next up is one of the all-time favorites -- the story of the Levite and his concubine from Judges 19:

[22] As they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, base fellows, beset the house round about, beating on the door; and they said to the old man, the master of the house, "Bring out the man who came into your house, that we may know him."


[23] And the man, the master of the house, went out to them and said to them, "No, my brethren, do not act so wickedly; seeing that this man has come into my house, do not do this vile thing.
[24] Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing."
[25] But the men would not listen to him. So the man seized his concubine, and put her out to them; and they knew her, and abused her all night until the morning. And as the dawn began to break, they let her go.
[26] And as morning appeared, the woman came and fell down at the door of the man's house where her master was, till it was light.
[27]
And her master rose up in the morning, and when he opened the doors of the house and went out to go on his way, behold, there was his concubine lying at the door of the house, with her hands on the threshold.


[28] He said to her, "Get up, let us be going." But there was no answer. Then he put her upon the ass; and the man rose up and went away to his home.
[29] And when he entered his house, he took a knife, and laying hold of his concubine he divided her, limb by limb, into twelve pieces, and sent her throughout all the territory of Israel.
[30] And all who saw it said, "Such a thing has never happened or been seen from the day that the people of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt until this day; consider it, take counsel, and speak."



Since the Bible is all about Jesus' divinity, please explain how the godhead is revealed in these passages. Or is it that your claim was baseless? Or that, as Nietzsche once said of Christianity that it produces bad readers?
 
How about 2 Kings?

2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
 
Or Exodus!

Plague of Pestilence
9:6 And the LORD did that thing on the morrow, and all the cattle of Egypt died: but of the cattle of the children of Israel died not one.

Plague of Hail
9:18 Behold, to morrow about this time I will cause it to rain a very grievous hail, such as hath not been in Egypt since the foundation thereof even until now.
9:19 Send therefore now, and gather thy cattle, and all that thou hast in the field; for upon every man and beast which shall be found in the field, and shall not be brought home, the hail shall come down upon them, and they shall die.
9:20 He that feared the word of the LORD among the servants of Pharaoh made his servants and his cattle flee into the houses:
9:21 And he that regarded not the word of the LORD left his servants and his cattle in the field.
9:22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch forth thine hand toward heaven, that there may be hail in all the land of Egypt, upon man, and upon beast, and upon every herb of the field, throughout the land of Egypt.
..
9:25 And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field.

That's a pretty good trick, killing all the cattle with pestilence and then raising them all from the dead so they can be killed with hail!
 
All I know is in school I never believed Darwinism was right. It just never sat well with me as truth. And now the more I know about it DNA research does not hold up in this theory. All I know is my ancestor isn't an ape!
What do you know about DNA research, can you expand on what about DNA research goes against evolution?


This is a bit off-topic for this thread, so I've started another one for Kathy to explain how DNA research opposes evolution:

Kurious Kathy's DNA research thread

Over to you, Kathy.
 
P.S.Why don't you ask me something pertaining to motherhood or the struggles working/ single moms have that is important? I can tell you alot about this one being a mother of 4. I just wish people would realize moms are important too even if we haven't had a college education. Does your wife work joobz?

My mom had a college degree. In fact, she holds a PhD. My sisters both are moms with college degrees.

Why are you painting moms to be uneducated and home-bodied?
 
It may sound like that to you, but I will guarantee that most Jews would disagree.

Why does an atheist care about what most Jews would think of my Christian post. You must have been raised Jewish. If that is true then I would assume you are now a godless Jew like Sigmund Freud.
 
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Why does an atheist care about what most Jews would think of my Christian post.


Well, we are talking about interpretation of the Bible here, aren't we? If there are large numbers of people who disagree with your interpretation (whatever their beliefs), it certainly suggests that your interpretation is not the only one available.
 
Why does an atheist care about what most Jews would think of my Christian post. You must have been raised Jewish. If that is true then I would assume you are now a godless Jew like Freud.
Hello, we live on the same planet, why wouldn't one care.

Paul

:) :) :)

Jesus was a Jew, so-called christians didn't exist then.
 
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Then who is the "Son of Man" {human like} in Daniel 7:14 who is described as being given by God dominion over the nations "forever".


The article you brought in says this:

"The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought."

___

So then who is this person who the Jew Isaiah prophesies about in Isaiah 53. It certainly sounds a lot like Jesus:

From Isaiah 53: 10-12

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
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Well, we are talking about interpretation of the Bible here, aren't we? If there are large numbers of people who disagree with your interpretation (whatever their beliefs), it certainly suggests that your interpretation is not the only one available.
An atheist should let God believing Jews speak for themselves. It just seemed kind of odd to me for an atheist to be guaranteeing that most Jews would disagree with my post, she should talk for most atheists not most Jews -- unless I am wrong and Hokulele is not an atheist but a God believing Jew.
 
An atheist should let God believing Jews speak for themselves. It just seemed kind of odd to me for an atheist to be guaranteeing that most Jews would disagree with my post, she should talk for most atheists not most Jews -- unless I am wrong and Hokulele is not an atheist but a God believing Jew.

are you angry at Jews now ?

is it because they originated the bible and are the only ones in it guaranteed to reach heaven
:D
 
Why should I be angry at the Jews, I'm very happy with the Jews. They gave us Mary and Joseph and Jesus and Paul and all the apostles.

yup thats right they did, and far more, they also gave you your God didn't they
:D
 
The article you brought in says this:

"The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought."

___

So then who is this person who the Jew Isaiah prophesies about in Isaiah 53. It certainly sounds a lot like Jesus:

From Isaiah 53: 10-12

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


That would be the suffering servant, a nice Isaiahan trope, which refers to the Israelites who suffer but will persevere nonetheless.

How in the world do you go from the suffering servant to Jesus as divinity? That passage refers to a man -- who stands in symbolically for a group -- with not only no mention of divinity, but no intimation that divinity even entered the authors mind (that is for the suffering servant).
 
An atheist should let God believing Jews speak for themselves. It just seemed kind of odd to me for an atheist to be guaranteeing that most Jews would disagree with my post, she should talk for most atheists not most Jews -- unless I am wrong and Hokulele is not an atheist but a God believing Jew.


Wait a second..............if you, for instance, make a sexist or racist statement and I recognize that you are being sexist or racist, I cannot call you on it because I'm a white male?

Look, when you're wrong you're wrong. And as Hok pointed out, from a Jewish perspective you are wrong.
 
An atheist should let God believing Jews speak for themselves. It just seemed kind of odd to me for an atheist to be guaranteeing that most Jews would disagree with my post, she should talk for most atheists not most Jews -- unless I am wrong and Hokulele is not an atheist but a God believing Jew.

Weak.

Why do you have to be Jewish to read and understand Jewish scripture? Why do you have to be Jewish to understand Jewish doctrine?
 
Why does an atheist care about what most Jews would think of my Christian post. You must have been raised Jewish. If that is true then I would assume you are now a godless Jew like Sigmund Freud.

ROFL. First Hokulele was a cannibal, now she's a Jew? And so what if she were Jewish?
 
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