ACTA Treaty: Opinions

Not until you have more ignorance-based paranoia to be debunked, no

:)
 
mortimer said:
An American citizen to the United States government: How many troops do we have in the military? Answer: Can't tell you. National security. You know.
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False example. Try getting a clue.

You can access the public laws passed by Congress that authorize DoD end strength. They come up every year.

Every year.

You can even go to the web sites for each service, and with a little digging, usually come up with manpower statements.

If you'd bother to actually do some fact checking before you spout off.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
False example. Try getting a clue.

You can access the public laws passed by Congress that authorize DoD end strength. They come up every year.

Every year.

You can even go to the web sites for each service, and with a little digging, usually come up with manpower statements.

If you'd bother to actually do some fact checking before you spout off.

DR
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DR, I think you missed my point. I was correcting rwgwinn's analogy. I asked that those who cited national security concerns as a reason to keep the details of the proposed treaty secret explain why there were national security concerns. rwgwinn replied with an analogy that basically asked "why would we tell our enemies what national security concerns existed?" and I basically replied that I am a citizen with a right to know, not an enemy.
 
On what basis is anyone building their fears that the Senate won't allow time for an "effective opposition" to ACTA? Why is there an assumption that there needs to be an "opposition" to ACTA?
 
Travis said:
On what basis is anyone building their fears that the Senate won't allow time for an "effective opposition" to ACTA? Why is there an assumption that there needs to be an "opposition" to ACTA?
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If we had the answers to those questions, this would be the first INRM thread that actually went anywhere.
 
I don't know if I hate Wikileaks more than Wikipedia or Wiki Wachee, but apparently they say they've got a draft or parts of a draft.

Have fun storming the castle, boys!

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Classified_US,_Japan_and_EU_ACTA_trade_agreement_drafts,_2009

Mortimer/INRM - how many treaties do you know of that have been negotiated out in the open? Traditionally, because ambassadors and trade delegates/representatives do actually do these things in long heated drawn out negotiations. They then take the results back and sell it to their legislative bodies/approval bodies.

I really don't understand what all the fuss is about? Should we do treaties now like America's Got Talent? Have a plebiscite?
 
This treaty is likely going to be used to violate the privacy of American citizens and end-run our Constitution at the very least.

I have every right to be concerned.


INRM
 
INRM said:
This treaty is likely going to be used to violate the privacy of American citizens and end-run our Constitution at the very least.
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How likely? Very likely? Hardly likely? 90% likely? 10% likely?

And how did you arrive at the conclusion that it's likely? What evidence prevented you from concluding unlikely?
 
INRM said:
This treaty is likely going to be used to violate the privacy of American citizens and end-run our Constitution at the very least
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How do you know Why do you believe this to be the case?
 
Foolmewunz said:
I don't know if I hate Wikileaks more than Wikipedia or Wiki Wachee, but apparently they say they've got a draft or parts of a draft.

Have fun storming the castle, boys!

http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Classified_US,_Japan_and_EU_ACTA_trade_agreement_drafts,_2009

Mortimer/INRM - how many treaties do you know of that have been negotiated out in the open? Traditionally, because ambassadors and trade delegates/representatives do actually do these things in long heated drawn out negotiations. They then take the results back and sell it to their legislative bodies/approval bodies.

I really don't understand what all the fuss is about? Should we do treaties now like America's Got Talent? Have a plebiscite?
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Bump. Care to address just what it is you think should be changed about how treaties should be negotiated. Or do you guys just want prefer running around waving your arms and saying, "The sky is falling. The sky is falling."
 
What's that word that Obama kept chanting during his campaign? Transparency?
 
mortimer said:
What's that word that Obama kept chanting during his campaign? Transparency?
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Yes, and as they have not yet installed a 24/7 web cam (with a mic) in the Oval Office, their bedroom and every other room in the White House they are quite obviously hypocrites.:rolleyes:

What we really need is a live video stream of their negotiations and not only that but we should have sensitive microphones on all the players so when the US delegation breaks off to converse strategy the whole world can listen in so when they go back to the table we know their idea of third party legal dispensations to Austria is just a bluff to get Ireland on board but what's really interesting is that Austria and Ireland will now know this too since they watched them come up with the plan on their iPhones. This sounds freaking awesome!
 
Travis said:
Yes, and as they have not yet installed a 24/7 web cam (with a mic) in the Oval Office, their bedroom and every other room in the White House they are quite obviously hypocrites.:rolleyes:

What we really need is a live video stream of their negotiations and not only that but we should have sensitive microphones on all the players so when the US delegation breaks off to converse strategy the whole world can listen in so when they go back to the table we know their idea of third party legal dispensations to Austria is just a bluff to get Ireland on board but what's really interesting is that Austria and Ireland will now know this too since they watched them come up with the plan on their iPhones. This sounds freaking awesome!
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And practical, too! We'd be negotiating treaties for longer than it took to settle Jarndyce v Jarndyce.
 
Foolmewunz said:
And practical, too! We'd be negotiating treaties for longer than it took to settle Jarndyce v Jarndyce.
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Infinitely long negotiations is the price we pay for that "transparency." Besides, actually getting stuff accomplished is way overrated.
 
Six7's,

Even if you read the wikipedia article on this (which is by no means complete and does not include the full contents of the treaty) you would probably understand why I would believe this.

The fact that the government is claiming it must be kept secret on the grounds of *National Security* do not help.


INRM
 
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