Pakistan Surrenders To Taliban

[WildCat]

Story:

Pro-Taliban militants and the Pakistani government reached a peace deal on Tuesday under which the militants agreed to stop attacks in both Pakistan and across the border in Afghanistan, negotiators said.

Sure they will... except it's OK to lie to further the jihad.

And it gets worse:

President Pervez Musharraf, who is due to visit Afghanistan soon, has said no group could use Pakistan as a springboard to launch attacks on other countries. He has also vowed to clear foreign militants from the Pakistani side of the border.

But Tuesday's agreement said foreigners could stay in Waziristan, as long as they kept the peace.

The foreigners get to stay. I'm sure they're just tourists and have nothing to do w/ jihad, nosiree Bob...

And one more thing:

People arrested during military operations would be released and confiscated property, including weapons, would be returned, according to the agreement.

Now that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Can someone tell me why it is so important for Pakistan to claim this territory when they have no control over it whatsoever? Why don't they just set it free, and then we'd be free to conduct military operations in the new country of Waziristan? Bin Laden must be laughing his keister off.

 

[peptoabysmal]

"Except for trade, people will not be allowed to go to Afghanistan to launch attacks," said Nek Zaman, a member of the tribal council who is also a member of the Pakistani parliament.

Afghanistan and its allies have long complained the Taliban are able to benefit from safe havens on the Pakistani side of the long, rugged border.

Under the agreement, the government will stop air and ground operations in Waziristan, dismantle newly built checkposts and put paramilitary forces in old ones.

This should work really well. To give al-Queda time to build up to full scale before finally crossing the border, that is.

What a crock of ....

Does this officially make Pakistan a "state sponsor of terrorism" now?

 

[geni]

The foreigners get to stay. I'm sure they're just tourists and have nothing to do w/ jihad, nosiree Bob...

In a fair number of cases this is probably true.

Can someone tell me why it is so important for Pakistan to claim this territory when they have no control over it whatsoever?

For much the same reasons and the southen states were not allowed to leave the union (of course in the case of Pakistan the Western lot have already left).

Why don't they just set it free, and then we'd be free to conduct military operations in the new country of Waziristan? Bin Laden must be laughing his keister off.

Setting them lose would risk encourgeing the rqadicals within the rest of Pakistan.

 

[Jocko]

In a fair number of cases this is probably true.

Evidence?

For much the same reasons and the southen states were not allowed to leave the union (of course in the case of Pakistan the Western lot have already left).

And that reason is...?

Setting them lose would risk encourgeing the rqadicals within the rest of Pakistan.

Evidence?

 

[Beerina]

Story:

Sure they will... except it's OK to lie to further the jihad.

And it gets worse:

The foreigners get to stay. I'm sure they're just tourists and have nothing to do w/ jihad, nosiree Bob...

And one more thing:

Now that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Can someone tell me why it is so important for Pakistan to claim this territory when they have no control over it whatsoever? Why don't they just set it free, and then we'd be free to conduct military operations in the new country of Waziristan? Bin Laden must be laughing his keister off.

Aren't we free to do so now? Whatever happened to "turn them over or suffer their fate you will"? Granted a country with a hundred million people and nuclear weapons is different from a busted, smashed nation remnant, but Pakistan is hardly maintaining anything other than nominal control over the area.

 

[geni]

Evidence?

The number of britons who have relatives in that area

And that reason is...?

Pride, not wanting to lose power on the world stage, whatever. It was your civil war.

Evidence?

Not the first time an area has wanted to leave Pakistan

 

[WildCat]

Aren't we free to do so now? Whatever happened to "turn them over or suffer their fate you will"? Granted a country with a hundred million people and nuclear weapons is different from a busted, smashed nation remnant, but Pakistan is hardly maintaining anything other than nominal control over the area.

That's the whole problem w/ Pakistan - the gov't is teetering on the edge and somewhere along the line they decided it was a good idea to develop nukes. A single airstrike targeted at al Zawahiri caused mass rioting there, imagine what a full-out assault would do. If the fundys there get hold of the gov't they just might decide to send a few nukes flying as their final gesture. And some here think it's OK for Iran to follow suit...

 

[WildCat]

Pride, not wanting to lose power on the world stage, whatever. It was your civil war.

Could it have anything to do w/ keeping the Mississippi River within US boundaries and continued access to domestic textiles?

I really don't see the upside for Pakistan to keeping the tribal areas.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Does this officially make Pakistan a "state sponsor of terrorism" now?

I guess so, time to cowboy up and bomb the crap out of them. *sigh* And it could have been such a beautiful relationship.

DR

 

[Jocko]

The number of britons who have relatives in that area

Care to be a little more specific? You know, like actually citing a number, a statistic, anything more than argument by fiat?

Pride, not wanting to lose power on the world stage, whatever. It was your civil war.

Obviously you have no grasp of the reasons behind the American Civil War, let alone any relevance to the topic at hand, so why even try to offer it as an example? Did you think no one would notice that it had nothing to do with the subject?

Not the first time an area has wanted to leave Pakistan

That is not evidence that it is happening now.

 

[geni]

Care to be a little more specific? You know, like actually citing a number, a statistic, anything more than argument by fiat?

I'm not aware that the numbers are published. But we have quite a few people who have faily over there from the days of the empire and the like.

Obviously you have no grasp of the reasons behind the American Civil War, let alone any relevance to the topic at hand, so why even try to offer it as an example? Did you think no one would notice that it had nothing to do with the subject?

The south could have been allowed to leave the union. sure there would have been an economic impact along with the loss of some resources but that is fairly standard when bits of your country leave. It was not. Southern Ireland was only allowed to leave the UK after a rather bitter conflict. There are half a dozen African countries with similar problems. Why doesn't India let Kashmir go? Why does morocco hold on to the Southern Sahara? Why does Russia hold onto Ingushetia?

That is not evidence that it is happening now.

The tribal areas have run themselves for quite a while. They are pashtun pakistan isn't (ok paksitan is a mess of different ethnic groups but that is fairly normal for british constructs at least it sticks together better than say Iraq).

There is no reason to think they want to be run by the centeral goverment.

 

[Ziggurat]

I really don't see the upside for Pakistan to keeping the tribal areas.

Which tribal areas? There are multiple tribal groups with complaints against the central government. The Pashtuns aren't the only ones, and if they let them go, what happens to the Balochistan region? The Baloch are also a restive minority group, but they're sitting on oil, and the central government isn't going to let go of it. But if they let go of the Pashtun regions, what will that likely do to independence movements in Balochistan?

 

[Rob Lister]

The south could have been allowed to leave the union. sure there would have been an economic impact along with the loss of some resources but that is fairly standard when bits of your country leave.

There was a move by some I love, some years back, to grammatically eliminate all forms of passive voice from dialog. Of course, it got nowhere...all kinds of ways around it.

 

[WildCat]

Give them an inch, and they take a mile...

Bump!

Having taken full control of the Swat Valley and imposing Sharia law in violation of the "peace agreement", the Taliban now are starting to take control of the neighboring Bruner district:

Taliban militants who implemented Islamic law in Pakistan's violence-plagued Swat Valley last week have now taken control of a neighboring province.

Control of the Buner district brings the Taliban closer to the capital, Islamabad, than they have been since they started their insurgency. Islamabad is 96 kilometers (60 miles) from the district.

"Our strength is in the hundreds," said Moulana Mohammad Khalil, as heavily armed men openly patrolled the roads in pickup trucks, singing Islamic anthems.

The militants had taken control of the area to ensure that Islamic law, or sharia, is properly imposed, Khalil said.

The government called the advance into Buner a breach of a recently-signed peace agreement.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/22/pakistan.taliban/index.html

Yet more evidence that "peace agreements" with militant Islamists only allows them room to consolidate their power and then expand.

How long before they take all of Pakistan, and what about the nukes?

Way to go Pakistan, keep rattling the saber against India while the Taliban destroy you from within.

 

[dudalb]

That's the whole problem w/ Pakistan - the gov't is teetering on the edge and somewhere along the line they decided it was a good idea to develop nukes. A single airstrike targeted at al Zawahiri caused mass rioting there, imagine what a full-out assault would do. If the fundys there get hold of the gov't they just might decide to send a few nukes flying as their final gesture. And some here think it's OK for Iran to follow suit...

None is so blind as those who will not see.
The amount of apologitics by some..not all...progressives to excuse or out and out justification Islamic extremism never fails to astonish me. I guess it's cool to support any Anti Western Establishment movement.
The excuses for the Somali Pirates is another example of this.

 

[theprestige]

Don't worry: As soon as Obama completes his next World Apology tour, the Taliban will miraculously transform into one of the most socially liberal and tolerant democracies in the world. Right?

 

[MG1962]

Don't worry: As soon as Obama completes his next World Apology tour, the Taliban will miraculously transform into one of the most socially liberal and tolerant democracies in the world. Right?

Well given what a disaster the previous tactics have been, you may be right

 

[DC]

Don't worry: As soon as Obama completes his next World Apology tour, the Taliban will miraculously transform into one of the most socially liberal and tolerant democracies in the world. Right?

yea Commrade Barack Obama aka Brother Hussein Obama is known for his weak course against the taliban , to not call it surrendering to them. And his naive considerateness of Pakistans sovereignty will kill us all.

 

[Policenaut]

The Swat move is a perfect example of what not to do: Give the Tailban what they want. Cause they want total control. And the Talibans word is as good as a Zimbabwe dollar.

 

[theprestige]

yea Commrade Barack Obama aka Brother Hussein Obama is known for his weak course against the taliban , to not call it surrendering to them. And his naive considerateness of Pakistans sovereignty will kill us all.

I think my strawman is way more awsome than your strawman.