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Mormonism is polytheistic?

Imagine a polytheistic religion with 10 gods, but you only believe in 9 of them.

Is that how atheists get started?

For some reason, I really like Ganeesh, the Hindu elephant-looking dude.
If I worshiped him, in private, would I have to turn in my atheist badge?
 
Atheists get a badge? Man, I'm out of the loop...

How does it go again? Everyone is an atheist, just some in more degrees (lack belief in one more god) than others.
 
Nopers. There isn't one planet per god. It's a joint effort, especially since that planet needs to be populated, and those will be the offspring of the god-couple. Becoming a god requires that you marry in a temple, and only if your husband is a good Mormon do you get to go on to the Celestial kingdom and potential god-hood. You spend eternity together, and you rule together. But the man is still master of all he surveys, and the woman is still subservient.

Well, that's a real turn-off for me. Obviously, it appeals to a bunch of other people. ; )


Yes, there remains a relationship between the gods. God the Father is always God the Father, and he rules over everyone else. If you're a good, faithful, true follower then you have the potential to progress to god-hood yourself. But you would still be subservient to God the Father.

I'm not certain what the relationship between two human sets of gods would be, but I'm guessing some sort of binding arbitration to work out issues. <shrug>

Is God the Father subservient to his version of "God the Father"?

I suddenly get the image of some kind of divine Ponzi scheme. ; )
 
Well, that's a real turn-off for me. Obviously, it appeals to a bunch of other people. ; )




Is God the Father subservient to his version of "God the Father"?

I suddenly get the image of some kind of divine Ponzi scheme. ; )

Oh noes! It's gods all the way up.
 
Well, that's a real turn-off for me. Obviously, it appeals to a bunch of other people. ; )

It's one of the criticisms Mrs RR has with her church. It's very heavily patriarchal, which can then easily lead to heavy abuses of the female members. It's rather hard to be a feminist and an LDS member in good standing. I believe they excommunicated a number of feminists a few years back for getting too uppity.

I guess the upshot is god-hood subserviant to your husband or no god-hood, subserviant to everyone who did make the cut?

Is God the Father subservient to his version of "God the Father"?

I suddenly get the image of some kind of divine Ponzi scheme. ; )
Oh noes! It's gods all the way up.

Nopers. God the Father, or Heavenly Father as the LDS generally reference him, is the top of the ladder. He was the first to make the next step along his spiritual evolution (there is also a Heavenly Mother, but the LDS don't know/talk about her) so he's it, baby. I think I mentioned earlier that God the Father is also in a constant state of progression, such that though an LDS member might attain god-hood, he/she will never be able to supplant him. As each god progresses, so too does their Heavenly Father.
 
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Not meant as a derail here, but how prevalent is this claim? I keep seeing it pop up every now and then, and have never found any strength in basis for it. As far as I'm aware, the closest any historical ancestors of Jews came to polytheism is that they often assimilated themselves into nearby culture, often for survival purposes. The actual religious stories (as far as can be told, considering the heavy oral tradition) still shows them as being monotheistic, even if it's a monotheism that their god is mightier and more 'real' than the others (who were called false gods). The entire story of the Hebrew people is one that basically revolves around them agreeing that this single god is the One True Deity and all others are false-- it's practically the only defining factor separating them from the other people of the Arabian/Mesopotamian region, since DNA evidence shows them to be pretty much the same people.

I mean, I suppose it could be said that the predecessors to the Hebrews were polytheistic, but mostly in a weak manner and they weren't what we could accurately call "the Hebrews." Frankly, though, most of those peoples in ancient times wouldn't necessarily fall clearly into one designation or another. Even those in Archaic and Hellenistic Greece wouldn't clearly fall into one or the other-- they usually recognized many gods, but worshipped mainly one.

One of the current views in archaeology is that the Jews and Israelites were the people remaining from the fall of the early Canaanite city-states. It's thought the problem may have been internal rebellion, and so the survivors had an interest in reworking the Canaanite pantheon to reflect their new status. Several of the old gods were enlisted by different authors - Elohim, who was a father figure and Yahweh, a storm/war god. The idea of a monotheism was slow in developing: Yahweh had a wife, Asherah, whose statuettes are found all over the time's excavations. Baal and others are also still present.

This pastiche straggled on until around 630BCE, when the Northern Israel states had been conquered by the Assyrians and laid waste. A reformer in Judah, the southern states, declared their bad fortune was brought about by not sticking with the pure monotheism, and he (known as the D author) influenced the Judean king, Josiah, to enforce the monotheism. His writings, "discovered" in the temple by Josiah, became the later part of Deuteronomy. The real change doesn't happen, though, until the return from Babylonia, when Ezra codified the reasons for the punishment and lays down the monotheistic law, and incidentally, finishes the OT. The poor, benighted Samaritans, who were the Judeans left behind when the higher classes trudged off to the east, have a religion that was likely what the Jewish religion was before the Babylonians came, with lots of animal blood sacrifice.

One easily accessible source for this archaeology is Nova's The Bible's Buried Secrets. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/program.html
 
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Such denialist word games are the only way they can claim to somehow be different and not doing the silly awful primitive things those OTHER people do, while still actually carrying on in precisely the same multi-godded, spell-casting, idol-worshipping manner. They can call it something else if they want to, but it's still really just the same old thing in a different costume.

Delvo! I'm surprised at your blatant disregard for tradition and ritual. I'm afraid you're going to have to turn in your conservative credentials and present yourself for some re-education. :)
 
One of the current views in archaeology is that the Jews and Israelites were the people remaining from the fall of the early Canaanite city-states. It's thought the problem may have been internal rebellion, and so the survivors had an interest in reworking the Canaanite pantheon to reflect their new status. Several of the old gods were enlisted by different authors - Elohim, who was a father figure and Yahweh, a storm/war god. The idea of a monotheism was slow in developing: Yahweh had a wife, Asherah, whose statuettes are found all over the time's excavations. Baal and others are also still present.

This pastiche straggled on until around 630BCE, when the Northern Israel states had been conquered by the Assyrians and laid waste. A reformer in Judah, the southern states, declared their bad fortune was brought about by not sticking with the pure monotheism, and he (known as the D author) influenced the Judean king, Josiah, to enforce the monotheism. His writings, "discovered" in the temple by Josiah, became the later part of Deuteronomy. The real change doesn't happen, though, until the return from Babylonia, when Ezra codified the reasons for the punishment and lays down the monotheistic law, and incidentally, finishes the OT. The poor, benighted Samaritans, who were the Judeans left behind when the higher classes trudged off to the east, have a religion that was likely what the Jewish religion was before the Babylonians came, with lots of animal blood sacrifice.

One easily accessible source for this archaeology is Nova's The Bible's Buried Secrets. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/program.html

What a great and concise explanation of a few thousand years of history, archeology and religion. :bigclap

It's also nice to note that the tradition of "finding" scriptures isn't a new one.
 
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One of the current views in archaeology is that the Jews and Israelites were the people remaining from the fall of the early Canaanite city-states. It's thought the problem may have been internal rebellion, and so the survivors had an interest in reworking the Canaanite pantheon to reflect their new status. Several of the old gods were enlisted by different authors - Elohim, who was a father figure and Yahweh, a storm/war god. The idea of a monotheism was slow in developing: Yahweh had a wife, Asherah, whose statuettes are found all over the time's excavations. Baal and others are also still present.

This pastiche straggled on until around 630BCE, when the Northern Israel states had been conquered by the Assyrians and laid waste. A reformer in Judah, the southern states, declared their bad fortune was brought about by not sticking with the pure monotheism, and he (known as the D author) influenced the Judean king, Josiah, to enforce the monotheism. His writings, "discovered" in the temple by Josiah, became the later part of Deuteronomy. The real change doesn't happen, though, until the return from Babylonia, when Ezra codified the reasons for the punishment and lays down the monotheistic law, and incidentally, finishes the OT. The poor, benighted Samaritans, who were the Judeans left behind when the higher classes trudged off to the east, have a religion that was likely what the Jewish religion was before the Babylonians came, with lots of animal blood sacrifice.

One easily accessible source for this archaeology is Nova's The Bible's Buried Secrets. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/program.html

While a lot of the broader ideas you're talking about are, as far as my studies have found, pretty much factual, the details you contextualize them in are not. It's not that the early Hebrews were the remainders of the Canaanites, it's that they were Canaanites, likely the more rural folk who moved into the metropolitan areas during years of decline, which would have the 'kingdom' of Israel starting some time during the second millennium BCE. This fits with the evidence we do have, as well as the evidence of differing dietary habits between the people of the cities and the more rural people who would most likely fit the description of the Hebrews. Their kingdom was met with the same troubles of internal politics and external pressure as anyone else during the time, but the main difference between them and their neighbors-- with whom they essentially shared the same DNA-- was with their culture, both social and religious.

The problem with the names like Yahweh or Elohim or Adonai-- names that have been essentially adopted by Christianity as "names of god," are not proper names at all in ancient Hebrew contexts but are instead titles used in the place of the naming of their god, which was considered to be a sacred thing that could only be done under serious circumstances by qualified individuals. Even the Tetragrammaton is not the name of god but an abbreviation used in holy writings of great portent. It would be a gross misunderstanding of ancient Hebrew culture and language to assign the titular names the status of the name of their god in terms of their religious practice. That is a common attribution from the Christian re-workings of the meanings of the words used by the early Hebrew writings, hence the use of the name (among others) "our Lord" (capitalized) in many Christian writings and liturgy. It's the linguistic equivalent of taking a two or three word phrase in one language, running it through Google Translate to Greek (or Latin), then running it through the Babelfish translator back into English-- the process loses context and cultural or historical significance.

That isn't to say that those names haven't been used by their neighbors or their predecessors-- even the Hebrews in their stories and scriptures loved to invoke Baal as a common god of others (though 'Baal' would have been more of a generic in the sense that they used it)-- but the similarities in name do not themselves denote a conversion of the multiple deities into one. Dumuzi (later Tammuz), a god popular in the region of Syria around the same time as the Hebrews, was also called Adonai, but the word 'adonai' is titular in nature and means 'lord' in the literal sense, both in Hebrew (ancient and modern) as well as Aramaic and its linguistic roots.

Also, keep in mind that I'm not saying that the people the Hebrews are descendants of weren't polytheists. In the broad sense, everyone around there was to some degree. However, many of the city-states in the region also tended to eschew all other gods but the patron deity of their city-state, often designated by the religious/political leaders of the time as their claim to or stake in power. This wasn't uncommon in the ancient middle-east, particularly earlier on further east between the Tigris and Euphrates, whose land had been growing less arid and fighting over land rights, farming rights, and water rights kept these city-states at a near constant state of war. Considering the story of Sargon, who united a large swath of these city-states, and the stories that followed of others, including some religious mythological stories, it's not only believable but highly likely (considering evidence) that these are the things that made up the bulk of influence of the Hebrews as a people, who eventually established Israel. The Hebrews were indeed an amalgam of the cultures and beliefs that surrounded them during their time in the ancient world, but just as any of those neighbors had differentiating features about themselves, so did the Hebrews of Israel. One of those distinguishing features was taking the tendency to be loyal to one god to an extreme or an absolute. It often proved useful in assignment of powers and as a unifying motif when attacked (which happened regularly enough).
 
I never thought of this before, but it just occurred to me that the tradition of using descriptors/titles instead of the "real name" could be responsible for the consolidation of different local favorite gods into what came to be considered just one god. If you call them by names, then you're reminded of their separateness every time you say anything. But if you talk about Our Father and the people in another nearby village talk about the Great Lord and the people in another talk about the Ruler of Spirits and the people in another talk about the Storm Bringer, then it's probably easier to forget just exactly how many different characters you're all talking about.

Anyway, for me, the Hebrews' polytheistic past doesn't even need all that archeological stuff from "outside" sources. Even in the modern Bible alone, the older books are peppered with things that look polytheistic, making the complete work look like a collection of old originally polytheistic writings that someone later edited sloppily to try to make it appear monotheistic:
  • "Thou shalt not put those other gods before me" (Um, which ones? At least you're letting me put them in second place after you... or maybe even a tie...)
  • "If they build this tower, they'll be just like us!" (Who are "we", and how does building a tower make them any more like "us" if "we" are the world's creator rather than just an inhabitant of it?)
  • "In those days the sons of the gods walked the Earth, had sex with human women, and begot great legendary men"
  • "Let's make a little wager between the two of us over the loyalty of Mr. Job"
  • ...various tales indicating how hard it apparently was for the ancient Hebrews/Jews to stick to "their" god instead of turning to something else like a golden calf statue or other idols that were apparently so prevalent at one point that they needed to be outlawed; turning to something else they just made up on the spot wouldn't make any sense even to themselves, so they must have been turning to something that they already believed existed before
  • ...plus a few instances of contests between different groups' priests/prophets to see whose god was more powerful, and in some cases the OTHER side is reported to have actually accomplished some neat tricks too

And then there are the indirect indicators, things which depict God as a creature of this world, inhabiting it along with us and relating to it in a similar way to the way we do, rather than being above, beyond, and outside it:
  • Status threatened by a masonry project (or at least by the level human potential it demonstrated)
  • At the end of the Flood story, he seems to find the smell of burned animals to be a soothing aroma as we might respond to food or flowers, and has to tie a rainbow around his finger to remind himself not to do that again because he might forget.
  • A wrestling match with the King? How does that make sense for a supra-corporeal entity who doesn't take on a body and do raw physical stuff like that on other occasions, especially when the one time he does so is for no particular apparent reason and isn't apparently regarded as anything very special and momentous?
  • Other animals created as failed attempts to find a companion for Adam; unbelievable incompetence for someone who created the world, but more understandable for some kind of critter that just lives in it as poly-gods tend to
  • Having them march around the enemy city making lots of noise... apparently he needed them to give him something to "work with" to destroy the walls instead of just doing it himself
  • Strangely narrow uses of power in almost every story involving any miracles, such as Sampson's hair, Daniel's peaceful lion buddies (why not get him OUT of there?), John's father being rendered mute until his birth apparently to make sure he'd name the kid John for no particular reason, people sitting/walking around in an execution oven...

Things like that are why, even when I was a kid surrounded by Christianity at a private school and being taken to church and Sunday school, long before I'd ever heard of most of the non-Biblical stuff that others have mentioned above, Christianity just never looked monotheistic to me. Sure, they said it was, but everything else about the religion except that one simple statement made it plain and clear that they just didn't really mean it, or at least hadn't always.
 
While a lot of the broader ideas you're talking about are, as far as my studies have found, pretty much factual, the details you contextualize them in are not. It's not that the early Hebrews were the remainders of the Canaanites, it's that they were Canaanites, likely the more rural folk who moved into the metropolitan areas during years of decline, which would have the 'kingdom' of Israel starting some time during the second millennium BCE.

The one theory that I looked at had the Canaanite city-states in Israel/Judea about 1000BCE suffer a decline, but with no evidence of outside influences. This suggests that the city-states collapsed from internal rebellion. The "remainders" are the ones who survived the rebellion, and since it didn't simply result in rebuilding the cities it is suggested that the lords were overthrown by the working stiffs. This goes a ways into explaining what set the new religion off from tthe forgoing ones, in that it was primitively egalitarian in nature, and why the Israelites felt themselves a people set apart. So I agree with your statement that the Israelites/Judeans were indeed Canaanites.

Another theory is that the Israelites were a traveling band of Canaanites dragged off to Egypt when they controlled Canaan, and who escaped and were moving back to Canaan when they encountered the Midianites in the Negev. The Egyptians mention the Midianites, and mention that had a god named YHW ("Yahoo" - who would have thunk it?). The Canaanites adopted their religion before moving back further into Canaan. That theory sounds alogether too slick for me, though, except for the Egyptian record.
 
I never thought of this before, but it just occurred to me that the tradition of using descriptors/titles instead of the "real name" could be responsible for the consolidation of different local favorite gods into what came to be considered just one god. If you call them by names, then you're reminded of their separateness every time you say anything. But if you talk about Our Father and the people in another nearby village talk about the Great Lord and the people in another talk about the Ruler of Spirits and the people in another talk about the Storm Bringer, then it's probably easier to forget just exactly how many different characters you're all talking about.

The problem with what you're saying is that you're demanding that these cultures describe or define their deities as characters instead of concepts. To many of these people in Mesopotamia and the surrounding regions, bad weather itself was a god or a demon, depending on where you're talking about or what level of power one wishes to ascribe to the supernatural force in question. This is why many city-states held to worshiping single deities exclusively for the most part, in that they were already culturally insular due to the fighting over land and water and farming rights, so having their own patron god belonging to them fit their culture rather well. The people of Israel-- once it became its own kingdom-- were very much similar to this insular culture, and it's not a huge leap to see how they also would adopt their own patron god as the sole being their universe surrounded. It's all about degrees of extremity, not a binary definition of one or the other, since even the archaic Greek states and the major Egyptian cities took part in this same practice of recognizing one major god above the rest, though their relative metropolitan commerce or communications kept the degree to which they did this limited and open to at least acknowledging these other gods.

-----

The one theory that I looked at had the Canaanite city-states in Israel/Judea about 1000BCE suffer a decline, but with no evidence of outside influences. This suggests that the city-states collapsed from internal rebellion. The "remainders" are the ones who survived the rebellion, and since it didn't simply result in rebuilding the cities it is suggested that the lords were overthrown by the working stiffs. This goes a ways into explaining what set the new religion off from tthe forgoing ones, in that it was primitively egalitarian in nature, and why the Israelites felt themselves a people set apart. So I agree with your statement that the Israelites/Judeans were indeed Canaanites.

I wouldn't say that it necessarily suggests an internal rebellion, but I have heard that this was a very likely probability. It was likely less of a rebellion and more of a practice of migration into the cities, integrating, and then taking control either through political influence or simply out-breeding rivals. This would account for a few instances in the Bible, including specific 'victories' like the sacking of Jericho (which was likely not a sacking) and the general overtaking of the Canaanite lands as a whole.

Another theory is that the Israelites were a traveling band of Canaanites dragged off to Egypt when they controlled Canaan, and who escaped and were moving back to Canaan when they encountered the Midianites in the Negev. The Egyptians mention the Midianites, and mention that had a god named YHW ("Yahoo" - who would have thunk it?). The Canaanites adopted their religion before moving back further into Canaan. That theory sounds alogether too slick for me, though, except for the Egyptian record.

Yeah, that sounds a bit like working backward from the assumption that the Hebrews must have been slaves in Egypt instead of following the evidence at hand. The Canaanites/Hebrews weren't very friendly with the Egyptians in general, as evidence shows throughout the bible (Egypt is rarely, if ever, mentioned in a positive light) and is shown in the few snippets of writing we know of about Egyptian dealings with other nations along the coastline around where Israel would have been. There aren't any mentions of Israel in particular that I know of, but the pharaohs rarely had nice things to say about the Syrians or other 'kings' they dealt with heading northeast up the coast. Also, considering both had a habit of claiming overwhelming victory against their enemies (and the habit of Egyptians to redact regularly) it's difficult to get a good idea of how much real interaction beyond fighting or arguing over swaths of land really took place between the Hebrews and the Egyptians.
 
It's funny, sometimes, as an actual Mormon, seeing ignorant accounts from others who haven't the faintest clue what we believe, purporting to state what we believe.

Anyway, no, that is not what we believe. Neither is anything else that has so far been stated in this thread.

Really, you should be leaving the task of explaining what Mormons believe to people who actually have some clue what it is that we Mormons believe.

I agree that it's not right to describe beliefs inaccurately.
So what exactly do you believe in reference to the reward given Christians? The reason I ask is because I came across the explanation about how each person becomes an almighty God with his own cosmos which you say is wrong and am interested in knowing the accurate one.
 
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I agree that it's not right to describe beliefs inaccurately.
So what exactly do you believe in reference to the reward given Christians? The reason I ask is because I came across the explanation about how each person becomes an almighty God with his own cosmos which you say is wrong and am interested in knowing the accurate one.

They can achieve exaltation, as far as I know. What that means besides a lofty religious term is pretty much a subjective guess. The most common answer is that you'd understand it within the belief system, because understanding that it's sacred is key to having an understanding of the concept.

Wrapped in a nice, pretty bow.
 
It's funny, sometimes, as an actual Mormon, seeing ignorant accounts from others who haven't the faintest clue what we believe, purporting to state what we believe.

Anyway, no, that is not what we believe. Neither is anything else that has so far been stated in this thread.

Really, you should be leaving the task of explaining what Mormons believe to people who actually have some clue what it is that we Mormons believe.

I agree that it's not right to describe beliefs inaccurately.
So what exactly do you believe in reference to the reward given Christians? The reason I ask is because I came across the explanation about how each person becomes an almighty God with his own cosmos which you say is wrong and am interested in knowing the accurate one.


I'm not going to go very deep into my beliefs, on this forum, because past experience has shown me that doing so here leads to arguments of a sort in which I have little interest in being involved; much of it based on people who have no honest clue about what we Mormons believe purporting to be greater experts on the subject than an actual practicing Mormon, and in which I get repeatedly accused of either lying about what I believe, or not even knowing what I believe, when what I say fails to match up with the accounts given by these self-proclaimed “experts”.


I will, at this point, say this much: Yes, we believe that we have the potential to become Gods. We — all of Mankind — are literally the children of God, and as such, every single one of us has the potential to become all that he is.

Beyond that, there is very little established doctrine, and a great deal of speculation and personal opinion.

Does this mean that we will go on to create worlds without number, as our God has done? We don't know. God hasn't told us. Many assume that this is exactly what that means. I know that others believe that what it really means is that we will be with our Heavenly father, sharing in what he has, and not so much off on our own, acting independently of him.

Does this mean that our God was once a mortal like us, and had to go through a similar process to that which is before us, to get where he is? Again, we do not know. He hasn't told us.

Does this mean that our God has peers, other gods out there who have created their own separate worlds populated with people who worship them rather than our God? Once again, we do not know. God hasn't told us anything about that.

All of the claims that have been posted in this thread, regarding these matters, are based, at best, on speculation and opinion, and not on any established doctrine.
 
Anyway, no, that is not what we believe. Neither is anything else that has so far been stated in this thread.
? Not a single thing? Really?

...much of it based on people who have no honest clue about what we Mormons believe purporting to be greater experts on the subject than an actual practicing Mormon...
I'm a descendant of Mormon pioneers. All of my brothers, sisters, parents and extended family are Mormon. I served a mission and graduated seminary.

Ad hominem makes for very poor argument.

All of the claims that have been posted in this thread, regarding these matters, are based, at best, on speculation and opinion, and not on any established doctrine.
This is somewhat disingenuous. Why didn't god make it clear and why is it so entrenched in Mormon culture?
  1. As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become --Lorenzo Snow
  2. "God himself, the Father of us all, is a glorified, exalted immortal resurrected man!" --Bruce R. Mconkie
  3. "...God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man and sits enthroned in yonder heavens..." --Journal of Discourses, V6, P3, 1844
  4. "The Glory of God is Intelligence" --popular Mormon refrain.
  5. The Mormon Church claims that the leader is a mouth piece of god.
It just doesn't make sense that a Church with a direct line to god has to rely on so much equivocation or that there is so much "speculation" that is held as true by followers. Shouldn't the refrain be changed to "the glory of god is speculation"? Is that really what having a prophet means?

Bob, stop with the ad hom and just deal with the facts and stop playing the martyr. It gets real old real fast.
 
If you really want to learn anything that is true or useful about Mormonism, I am afraid that it simply is not going to happen on the Randi forums.
Fallacy. Nonsense. One does not need to be a Mormon to know facts and history about Mormonism. AND I AM A MORMON. I graduated seminary. I attended Sunday School nearly every Sunday for 25 years. I read the BOM front to back a half dozen times. I attended Know Your Religion and other availed myself of other resources. My parents were missionaries. I was a missionary. I taught Sunday School. I taught Priesthood.

Aside for the ad hominem your post is trite rhetoric and it's utter BS.

You fail on every level of skepticism and critical thinking. You are entitled to an opinion but it's without any evidence or reason and shows a real and serious contempt for anyone who is not an active Mormon.

The world isn't out to get Mormons. You are not a martyr. You are just a Mormon.

You are entitled to respect but no more than you show others. This bullying and personal attack against others doesn't go far to engender respect.
 
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? Not a single thing? Really?

I'm a descendant of Mormon pioneers. All of my brothers, sisters, parents and extended family are Mormon. I served a mission and graduated seminary. … I attended Know Your Religion and other availed [sic] myself of other resources. My parents were missionaries. I was a missionary. I taught Sunday School. I taught Priesthood.


If that were true, then you certainly would know better than to make some of the claims that you have made. For example, you would know that of the five enumerated statements that you have made here of alleged LDS doctrine, only one is correct.

  1. As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become --Lorenzo Snow
  2. "God himself, the Father of us all, is a glorified, exalted immortal resurrected man!" --Bruce R. Mconkie
  3. "...God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man and sits enthroned in yonder heavens..." --Journal of Discourses, V6, P3, 1844
  4. "The Glory of God is Intelligence" --popular Mormon refrain.
  5. The Mormon Church claims that the leader is a mouth piece of god.


Only one of these statements is supported by LDS scripture, and established as a point of official doctrine.

Your last claim, in particular, is disturbingly incorrect. It implies that we assume every word every spoken by any prophet or other high-level leader to be doctrinally authoritative, and it is on this basis alone that you represent the remaining three points as LDS doctrine.

Nobody is a “mouth piece of God”. Nobody. A prophet is one who receives instruction from God, which he passes on to the rest of us. But this does not deny him the capacity to hold, express, and even publish beliefs of his own. There is a specific process by which revelation is authenticated and established as doctrinally authoritative. Anything which has not been established through this process is not doctrine.

If you had the background that you claim to have, then you would know this; and you would understand that several of the points that you have claimed to be doctrine, not having been established through this process, are not doctrine at all.
 
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