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The Heiwa Challenge

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TheRedWorm said:
Why? Do you think that is a realistic scenario for what happened on 9/11?
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This thread is about The Heiwa Challenge! Just drop C on A and try to one-way crush down A. No fires, no buckling of elements, no pulverization of concrete, &c. Just a simple structure A to be crushed by a small part C of itself that is dropped on A. You can try a WTC 1 similar structure but I try to keep it general.

PS Re 9/11 I think WTC 1 was demolished from top down using energy applied from inside and not from a something dropping down from above. The ulitimate objective of The Heiwa Challenge is to produce substance to this hypothesis.
 
ok, the top part of the card tower is part C, the rest of the tower is part A. How would raising it change anything, if it completely collapsed from a resting position?

ETA: Aren't you the guy that thinks that friction alone would arrest collapse of the two towers? If true, why do you object to the card tower essentially being held up by friction?
 
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Fjolle said:
Hmm. I missed that. Does anyone know how i scale a bolt to 1/4000? :jaw-dropp
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Don't forget the nut! Yes, bolted joints are also permitted with nuts secured properly (not only friction). Any size. Don't forget the lateral test before drop. :)
 
TheRedWorm said:
ok, the top part of the card tower is part C, the rest of the tower is part A. How would raising it change anything, if it completely collapsed from a resting position?

ETA: Aren't you the guy that thinks that friction alone would arrest collapse of the two towers? If true, why do you object to the card tower essentially being held up by friction?
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The structure must before drop test pass the lateral strength test without collapsing. See conditions. Then split structure in A and C and drop, &c.

The structure consists of elements and joints and is standing up and shall be crushed down. Such a structure cannot rely on joints of friction. It will not pass the lateral test.

Yes, friction or the lack of it will make The Heiwa Challenge difficult.

Friction between loose or displaced elements will evidently absorb energy and make one-way crush down difficult or even impossible.

Lack of friction between elements will make application of energy to destroy joints between elements impossible.

You cannot have it both ways. You must really consider friction. Otherwise part C will just slip off part A. :)
 
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Do you think there is any way to actually pass your challenge? If not, what's the point? If so, your challenge must have a strong resemblance to what happened on 9/11, which it seems to lack. You can't have it both ways.
 
Heiwa said:
Don't forget the nut! Yes, bolted joints are also permitted with nuts secured properly (not only friction). Any size. Don't forget the lateral test before drop. :)
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How do nuts+bolts function, Heiwa ?
 
TheRedWorm said:
ETA: Aren't you the guy that thinks that friction alone would arrest collapse of the two towers? If true, why do you object to the card tower essentially being held up by friction?
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Good point.

Wish I had thought of that, Worm :)
 
TheRedWorm said:
Do you think there is any way to actually pass your challenge? If not, what's the point? If so, your challenge must have a strong resemblance to what happened on 9/11, which it seems to lack. You can't have it both ways.
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Pls, re-read post #1. Many OCT-ists believe structural one-way crush downs are not only possible but frequent and natural events but they cannot prove it. So it is a matter of faith for them. I, of course, know a one-way crush is impossible, so I start The Heiwa Challenge just to confirm it.

Result so far? Problems with nuts and bolts and scale, &c! All posts like that just confirm my knowledge.
 
Heiwa said:
Pls, re-read post #1. Many OCT-ists believe structural one-way crush downs are not only possible but frequent and natural events but they cannot prove it. So it is a matter of faith for them. I, of course, know a one-way crush is impossible, so I start The Heiwa Challenge just to confirm it.

Result so far? Problems with nuts and bolts and scale, &c! All posts like that just confirm my knowledge.
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4620667#post4620667
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4561435#post4561435
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4614294#post4614294
 
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Newtons Bit said:
Sometimes through friction :)

Those are called slip-critical. They're pretty common in buildings in the U.S.
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Thanks. It always occurred to my non-engineering brain that the thread of a nut/bolt was like putting something on a slope. The shallower the slope the less likely it was to slide. And then again I suppose you can add adhesive, welding, split-pins and stuff and other means of securing.

Is it possible to tighten a nut/bolt so tight that it kind of self-welds? Just wondering, for my own education ;)
 
Heiwa said:
Pls, re-read post #1. Many OCT-ists believe structural one-way crush downs are not only possible but frequent and natural events but they cannot prove it. So it is a matter of faith for them. I, of course, know a one-way crush is impossible, so I start the Heiwa challenge just to confirm it.

Result so far? Problems with nuts and bolts and scale, &c! All posts like that just confirm my knowledge.
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Do you actually understand scaling? Not just in buildings, but in the everyday world?
 
TheRedWorm said:
Do you think there is any way to actually pass your challenge? If not, what's the point? If so, your challenge must have a strong resemblance to what happened on 9/11, which it seems to lack. You can't have it both ways.
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Before I'd waste any time on "The Heiwa Challenge " I'd make sure there is " the Heiwa Money"
 
Heiwa said:
Live structural elements? Why not? You have to connect them with joints of some kind, though! Glue? Then drop C on A. Send photos of your one-way crush down contraption. Thanks for taking part in The Heiwa Challenge!
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You skated right past the part where the tower of elephants collapsed. How can you act so confident when what you say is obviously wrong? Are you really an engineer?
 
GlennB said:
Thanks. It always occurred to my non-engineering brain that the thread of a nut/bolt was like putting something on a slope. The shallower the slope the less likely it was to slide. And then again I suppose you can add adhesive, welding, split-pins and stuff and other means of securing.

Is it possible to tighten a nut/bolt so tight that it kind of self-welds? Just wondering, for my own education ;)
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High-strength bolts are tightened to the point that the bolt itself yields in tension (but before tension rupture). This ensures constant behavior with the bolt.

Bolts have two failure modes in typical shear only loading - slip critical and bearing. Slip is generally a service level failure for most applications: the load on the bolt is such that it exceeds the resisting maximum force of friction. The other is bearing, the bolt literally shears in half.
 
FineWine said:
You skated right past the part where the tower of elephants collapsed. How can you act so confident when what you say is obviously wrong? Are you really an engineer?
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I am definietely not working at a zoo or cirkus. Topic is The Heiwa Challenge!
 
The author of and donor to the Heiwa Challenge is a charlatan, offering Monopoly money only and consistently moving the goal posts to make certain he never has to pay up to Parker Brothers for another box.

There have been at least 2, possibly 3, scenarios which would win this challenge clearly put forth in this thread.

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NORAD reports that the Goal Posts are now somewhere over the Indian Ocean. NATO cautions travelers in the area due to violence in Sri Lanka.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/1418947d05fc07d27e.jpg
 
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