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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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What quote are you talking about and what is G... post?


Since you have previously admitted that you do not read the long posts, here it is again with the key parts highlighted (my bolding).

Not according to the book, it says the 84 facts have been historically and archaeologically confirmed and gives a footnote. see page 256 of this site.

<snipped the links and unrelated nonsense>


DOC,

The 84 detailed historical "facts" offered by Geisler are not exactly historic in the sense that they prove any part of Christianity to be true. Geisler points out that the author knew proper terms, mentions several temples in the major cities, and seemed to understand basic sailing and sea navigation. Most of this could be explained by having an author that lived around the Aegean Sea and came into contact with one of Paul's churches...around 95 CE or later. The author is an historian in the sense that he describes life in the eastern Mediterranean around the first century. This actually helps to prove a later date of composition than what Geisler would like to admit.

(Where the author of Acts gets into trouble is when he describes Paul's words and deeds quite different then how Paul does in his own letters. Plus, did you ever notice how Paul refers to himself as an Apostle in his own letters, yet Luke, his supposed traveling companion, never refers to him as such...hmmm.)

Also, on page 270 Geisler shows a table that is titled "New Testament Figures Cited by Non-Christian Writers and/or Confirmed by Archaeology". The list contains many Roman leaders, Jesus, John the Baptist, and James, brother of Jesus. Josephus is listed for most as the primary non-Christian written source. The archaeological evidence presented are coins found that have different Roman leaders imprinted on them, an ossuary that contained the bones of Caiaphas, and a few inscriptions that mention these leaders by name. Yes, this is historical evidence that THOSE people existed. None of this proves that Jesus rose from the dead.

For Geisler to state that because "Luke" knew the correct language "spoken in Lystra was Lycaonian" (#5) and he mentioned "Zeus and Hermes" as the correct gods worshipped in Lystra (#6) means everything he wrote to be factual is a bit of a stretch, don't ya think?

If by footnote you mean his quote from A. N. Sherwin-White (Roman Historian), then I find it interesting that he snipped out a part of the sentence. Geisler has this:
"For Acts the confirmation of historicity is overwhelming....Any attempt to reject its basic historicity must now appear to be absurd. Roman historians have long taken it for granted."

Hmmm...What was edited out? Here's the line that was removed by Geisler:
"For Acts the confirmation of historicity is overwhelming. Yet Acts is, in simple terms and judged externally, no less of a propaganda narrative than the Gospels, liable to similar distortions." - Roman Society and Roman Law in the New Testament by A. N. Sherwin-White pg 189.

So yes, there are genuine historical facts in Acts that are mixed-in with the author's propaganda, just like the other Gospels. Basically any text from history, even if completely fictional, would be of value to a historian because they would reflect the beliefs and ideas of the author and the audience for which it was written.

Doesn't mean those beliefs or ideas are true though...


So Geisler's own source describes Luke's work as propaganda and liable to distortion.

As I said, if you try to bring this argument up again as support for your position, I will continue to call it, and you, deceptively dishonest.
 
Yes, I saw this from previous, and responded to it by addressing DOC's continued reliance on a misuse of Jefferson. DOC continually fails to note that Jefferson is speaking about Jesus' words after he (Jefferson) has edited and reorganized them.

But DOC fails to address the primary contradiction in his own words.

I know Jefferson wasn't a mainline Christian, but he thought of himself as a Christian if we are to believe his own words. Jefferson was speaking intellectually about Christ's overall teachings. Jefferson had a bias about the supernatural. From memory Jefferson basically said Christ never considered himself more than just a prophet or teacher. Jefferson would be wrong about this since according to the bible Christ said he existed before Abraham and Issac.
 
I know Jefferson wasn't a mainline Christian, but he thought of himself as a Christian if we are to believe his own words. Jefferson was speaking intellectually about Christ's overall teachings. Jefferson had a bias about the supernatural. From memory Jefferson basically said Christ never considered himself more than just a prophet or teacher. Jefferson would be wrong about this since according to the bible Christ said he existed before Abraham and Issac.

Yes, but Jesus also condoned slavery, so his statements are bound to contain errors.
 
I know Jefferson wasn't a mainline Christian, but he thought of himself as a Christian if we are to believe his own words. Jefferson was speaking intellectually about Christ's overall teachings. Jefferson had a bias about the supernatural. From memory Jefferson basically said Christ never considered himself more than just a prophet or teacher. Jefferson would be wrong about this since according to the bible Christ said he existed before Abraham and Issac.

Not the question that was being asked.

Here you go DOC. Crank it up to eleven. Let me know when you have a real answer. I'd be on pins and needles, but that would hurt.
 
It doesn't work for me, as I've stated more than once. I wonder if it's dependent on which country you're in?


So, perhaps you could just type out the one argument you find most convincing, and we could discuss that?

It would probably be better for you to spend $9 for a used copy of the 400+ page book cited in post #1 (on Amazon.com). He also has a big section on modern scientific theories.

I think one of his best arguments is why would the NT writers portray Peter who the NT writers knew was the leader of the Church as a coward who denied Christ 3x's to a lone woman and also why would they have Christ looking at Peter and saying get behind thee Satan. That doesn't make sense for someone who was making up a story to say about the leader of a Church unless it was true.

And his section on the highly detailed information the physician Luke (who several have called a first rate historian) is impressive. He lists 87 of these highly detailed facts that have been shown to be accurate by historians and archaeologists. He also give over 50 highly detailed accurate facts given by the gospel writer John. These are not fantasy writers -- their detailed works give the impression of being stone cold reporters and historians.
 
I think one of his best arguments is why would the NT writers portray Peter who the NT writers knew was the leader of the Church as a coward who denied Christ 3x's to a lone woman and also why would they have Christ looking at Peter and saying get behind thee Satan. That doesn't make sense for someone who was making up a story to say about the leader of a Church unless it was true.
If that is one of the best arguments you really should give up.
 
If that is one of the best arguments you really should give up.
I say in all sincerity that I suspect DOC long, long ago gave up discussing the evidence, proof, etc of his woo and is, instead, merely witnessing as a means of appeasing his ultra-nasty god
 
Yes, and God made it.

And you base this statement on what exactly? What is your evidence?

What is the nature of this "soul" thing you write about, anyway?

Pretending for a moment that this "God" person exists, how did he create it and with what?

How do you detect it and what makes it detectable?

What is it composed of?

How does it operate?

Where does it reside in the body?

How does it manipulate it?
 
It would probably be better for you to spend $9 for a used copy of the 400+ page book cited in post #1 (on Amazon.com). He also has a big section on modern scientific theories.


Which is mostly wrong.

I think one of his best arguments is why would the NT writers portray Peter who the NT writers knew was the leader of the Church as a coward who denied Christ 3x's to a lone woman and also why would they have Christ looking at Peter and saying get behind thee Satan. That doesn't make sense for someone who was making up a story to say about the leader of a Church unless it was true.


Did you even bother to read Ichneumonwasp's post regarding the theme of the Gospel of Mark? Or was that another of those long posts you do not read?

And his section on the highly detailed information the physician Luke (who several have called a first rate historian) is impressive.


Several? Name two.

He lists 87 of these highly detailed facts that have been shown to be accurate by historians and archaeologists. He also give over 50 highly detailed accurate facts given by the gospel writer John. These are not fantasy writers -- their detailed works give the impression of being stone cold reporters and historians.


Once again, why do you assume that writers of fiction do not include facts?


Oh, and how about an answer to six7s' question?
 
Yes, and God made it.
And you base this statement on what exactly? What is your evidence?

What is the nature of this "soul" thing you write about, anyway?

Pretending for a moment that this "God" person exists, how did he create it and with what?

How do you detect it and what makes it detectable?

What is it composed of?

How does it operate?

Where does it reside in the body?

How does it manipulate it?
We interrupt this broadcast to make the following announcement:
Porcine Airlines Flight 042 from Utopia, now landing, gate 666

Please, do not adjust your set
 
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I say in all sincerity that I suspect DOC long, long ago gave up discussing the evidence, proof, etc of his woo and is, instead, merely witnessing as a means of appeasing his ultra-nasty god
His arguments have become less and less intelligent as time passes. He once tried to at least argue using the Bible and some "facts" from apolegetics. Now he just parrots Geisler and just lies.

His continued lies and usage of Thomas Jefferson is rather bizarre since Jefferson didn't really like or even believed in Christianity. This fella keeps claiming this besides never once showing that he has read the Jefferson Bible or even his own Bible.

He is devolving. It is truly an interesting sight.
 
No. Audumbla licked Ymir's balls and out came YHWH.
only according to the great haocknarg, the 3rd variety. It's quite clear that the extraordinary catharsis plays a real aspect and that the Audumbla was really heback to Ymir's 4th aspect.

But of course, that's the popular interpretation of nhast.
 
only according to the great haocknarg, the 3rd variety. It's quite clear that the extraordinary catharsis plays a real aspect and that the Audumbla was really heback to Ymir's 4th aspect.

But of course, that's the popular interpretation of nhast.
Bah, its cows all the way down.
 
His arguments have become less and less intelligent as time passes
I seriously think that DOC began spouting nonsense before I encountered any of 'his' threads
His continued lies and usage of Thomas Jefferson is rather bizarre since Jefferson didn't really like or even believed in Christianity.
For a moment, I saw a glimmer of light...
From memory Jefferson basically said Christ never considered himself more than just a prophet or teacher. Jefferson would be wrong about this since according to the bible Christ said he existed before Abraham and Issac.
DOC acknowledging that Jefferson is NOT suited to endorsing the DOC's Own brand of woo

Alas, moments later he was back in the bat-cave pumping more guano:
...the highly detailed information the physician Luke (who several have called a first rate historian) is impressive. He lists 87 of these highly detailed facts that have been shown to be accurate by historians and archaeologists. He also give over 50 highly detailed accurate facts given by the gospel writer John. These are not fantasy writers -- their detailed works give the impression of being stone cold reporters and historians.

Never mind
 
For a moment, I saw a glimmer of light... DOC acknowledging that Jefferson is NOT suited to endorsing the DOC's Own brand of woo
It's funny. Jefferson considered jesus as nothing more than a good philosopher. But to DOC, that makes him a christian.

Yet,DOC doesn't consider Hitler, who was raised christian and used a lot of christian imagery,a christian.
 
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