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ACTA Treaty: Opinions

INRM

Philosopher
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What are your opinions about the ACTA Treaty (Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement) which is a highly secretive treaty that may allow the government more leeway in monitoring internet transmissions, counterfeiting computers, possibly filtering internet content, and which FOIA requests have been met with loads of stone-walling including a claim that the treaty must be kept secret under grounds of National-Security?

INRM
 
My opinion is that the treaty probably needs to be kept secret on national security grounds.

Now here's my question for you: What are your opinions on the passive and active defense systems of Air Force One, which is a highly classified group of systems, that may allow the government more leeway in monitoring radio transmissions, targeting computers, possibly filtering air traffic, and about which FOIA requests have been met with loads of stone-walling including a claim that systems must be kept secret on national security grounds?
 
theprestige,

Kind of ironic that you blindly support the theory without seeming any evaluation of what the treaty is even about. Kind of ironic that a forum of skeptics would so quickly accept such a statement without any critical thinking whatsoever.

I think comparing the Active and Passive defensive systems of Air Force One, to the ACTA treaty is like comparing apples to oranges.

Regarding the ACTA treaty, there is no good reason it should be kept secret, and certainly no national security grounds.


INRM
 
INRM said:
Regarding the ACTA treaty, there is no good reason it should be kept secret, and certainly no national security grounds.
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I'd ask you to prove this claim with evidence, but the only way you could possibly do that is if you'd read the treaty in its entirety, were a subject-matter expert on every topic covered by the treaty, and were an expert on national security considerations.

Since it's highly unlikely that you meet any of these criteria, let alone meet all three, I think I can safely assume that you have no idea what you're talking about, and that it's entirely possible that there are actual national security reasons for keeping some terms of the treaty secret.
 
ThePrestige,

I sincerely doubt it. Plus they probably would have cited national security right away if there actually was a national security concern.

This bill seems to have (from the little information available) some very unsavory components to it...


INRM
 
I don't know that I've ever done this, but I have to agree with INRM on this. On what possible national security grounds can the details of what is basically a strengthening of worldwide copyright law be withheld?
 
INRM said:
I sincerely doubt it.
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I don't question your sincerity, just your judgement and insight.

Plus they probably would have cited national security right away if there actually was a national security concern.
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And you base this expert opinion of what they probably would or would not have done on what, exactly?

This bill seems to have (from the little information available) some very unsavory components to it...
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This viewpoint would be more interesting if you didn't think everything you know nothing about was unsavory.
 
theprestige said:
I don't question your sincerity, just your judgement and insight.


And you base this expert opinion of what they probably would or would not have done on what, exactly?


This viewpoint would be more interesting if you didn't think everything you know nothing about was unsavory.
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Perhaps you have some insight as to what national security concerns could be applied to a copyright protection treaty?
 
There isn't any national security concerns, it's just an excuse to not reveal the contents of the treaty
 
INRM said:
What are your opinions about the ACTA Treaty (Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement) which is a highly secretive treaty that may allow the government more leeway in monitoring internet transmissions, counterfeiting computers, possibly filtering internet content, and which FOIA requests have been met with loads of stone-walling including a claim that the treaty must be kept secret under grounds of National-Security?

INRM
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1. There is no ACTA treaty as of today.
2. The treaty is being negotiated in secret.
3. Once negotiations are complete, it will no longer be secret as it will have to...
4. Be ratified by the US Senate in order to be binding on the US.
 
Wildcat,

Don't you see a problem with a treaty that could potentially allow the government enormous leeway in monitoring internet transmissions without warrant, confiscating computers, and potentially even filtering internet content being kept under such extreme secrecy?


INRM
 
mortimer said:
Perhaps you have some insight as to what national security concerns could be applied to a copyright protection treaty?
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None whatsoever. Luckily, I'm not the one making a positive claim about the nature of the treaty.

INRM clearly believes there is no justification at all for making these treaty negotiations secret. He just as clearly has absolutely no reason at all for believing this.
 
INRM said:
Wildcat,

Don't you see a problem with a treaty that could potentially allow the government enormous leeway in monitoring internet transmissions without warrant, confiscating computers, and potentially even filtering internet content being kept under such extreme secrecy?


INRM
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"could potentially"?

Hey, your post "could potentially" start a nuclear war which ends human civilization as we know it. Butterfly flapping its wings and all...
 
mortimer said:
So why are officials claiming national security concerns when asked about the treaty?
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What treaty?

And you accept INRM's claim that there were national security reasons, even though he provided no evidence whatsoever of this?
 
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Wildcat,

"could potentially"?
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That's right. The fact that this bill is completely secret doesn't help it's case.

Hey, your post "could potentially" start a nuclear war which ends human civilization as we know it. Butterfly flapping its wings and all...
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That's a little bit off the wall. I doubt such a treaty would have such an effect, but it could have effects on online privacy.


INRM
 
INRM said:
Wildcat,



That's right. The fact that this bill is completely secret doesn't help it's case.
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There is no bill. You really don't know what is going on here, do you?

That's a little bit off the wall. I doubt such a treaty would have such an effect, but it could have effects on online privacy.


INRM
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"Online privacy"? What's that?
 
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