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Electric Car - Tesla Type S

CORed said:
A hydraulic accumulator doesn't use electricity. In it's simplest form, it is just a tank containing air or some other gas and hydraulic oil. When braking, a pump pushes hydraulic oil into the tank and pressurizes the gas. Power can than be drawn from it by using the gas pressure to push the oil out of the tank to drive a hydraulic motor.
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Ford is developing a variant on this that works on air and doesn't require a separate pomp:

http://www.greencar.com/articles/ford-ucla-design-hybrids-powered-air.php

The engine is used to compress air when braking, when accelerating this air is used to propell the car. The main modification is adding a tank to store the air, so that would add comparatively little weight.
 
Something's really fishy about the latest spate of free advertising embarked upon by Tesla Motors. I've seen one of their bagmen on at least three different television shows making claims about their product.

There was a profitability claim such as this:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/technology/tesla_profitability/?postversion=2009080716

Something is immediately wrong with this claim. Since when does a heavily-subsidised item, with very high fixed costs, make a profit when selling only 100 items a month at $100,000 each? How much of the development cost is being capitalised? Anyone know?

Next there is a claim of reduced CO2 emissions based on some kind of calculation of the output for the electrical generation charge. Is it correct? Aren't they missing something from the equation?

Then there's the field tests. Has anyone read any of them? Is performance actually affected by something as simple as using the windshield wipers or the headlights? Can this automobile be operated at night or in the rain?

What about the limits of battery-generated power? Isn't there a fundamental problem of chemistry that limits battery life? (I actually cracked out my high school chemistry textbook to look up how batteries work. Isn't there something finite that converts one side of the electron flow to a different compound over time? How big can a battery get and how does that relate to power output and "engine" mass?)

Then there are the safety exemptions: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23049161/. Wow! Where can I get safety exemptions for my StilichoEnergySafeTM line of exploding chainsaws?

Last but not least there's the probable IPO launch: http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10444562-54.html. It's said that CEO Musk (boffo name!) has "earned" over $24 million already from this product in spite of a huge balance sheet deficit. Maybe he missed his calling and ought to be operating a savings and loan.

Am I the only one who see a whole bunch of red flags all over this thing?
 
stilicho said:
Something's really fishy about the latest spate of free advertising embarked upon by Tesla Motors. I've seen one of their bagmen on at least three different television shows making claims about their product.

There was a profitability claim such as this:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/technology/tesla_profitability/?postversion=2009080716

Something is immediately wrong with this claim. Since when does a heavily-subsidised item, with very high fixed costs, make a profit when selling only 100 items a month at $100,000 each? How much of the development cost is being capitalised? Anyone know?

Next there is a claim of reduced CO2 emissions based on some kind of calculation of the output for the electrical generation charge. Is it correct? Aren't they missing something from the equation?

Then there's the field tests. Has anyone read any of them? Is performance actually affected by something as simple as using the windshield wipers or the headlights? Can this automobile be operated at night or in the rain?

What about the limits of battery-generated power? Isn't there a fundamental problem of chemistry that limits battery life? (I actually cracked out my high school chemistry textbook to look up how batteries work. Isn't there something finite that converts one side of the electron flow to a different compound over time? How big can a battery get and how does that relate to power output and "engine" mass?)

Then there are the safety exemptions: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23049161/. Wow! Where can I get safety exemptions for my StilichoEnergySafeTM line of exploding chainsaws?

Last but not least there's the probable IPO launch: http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10444562-54.html. It's said that CEO Musk (boffo name!) has "earned" over $24 million already from this product in spite of a huge balance sheet deficit. Maybe he missed his calling and ought to be operating a savings and loan.

Am I the only one who see a whole bunch of red flags all over this thing?
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Er...that last link is from January; Tesla actually had their IPO more than a month ago.

I'm guessing they're just trying to court investment from one of the other big automakers, now that GM is coming out with the Volt and investing in one of Tesla's competitors.

ETA: Never mind. Both your other links are old too.
 
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Prometheus said:
Er...that last link is from January; Tesla actually had their IPO more than a month ago.

I'm guessing they're just trying to court investment from one of the other big automakers, now that GM is coming out with the Volt and investing in one of Tesla's competitors.

ETA: Never mind. Both your other links are old too.
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Actually, while you're here, another question: Isn't "recharging" a battery simply reversing the electron flow and "undoing" the process? Doesn't that take energy? Is it the same energy as produced by the original electron flow? More? Less?
 
stilicho said:
Actually, while you're here, another question: Isn't "recharging" a battery simply reversing the electron flow and "undoing" the process? Doesn't that take energy? Is it the same energy as produced by the original electron flow? More? Less?
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In order of your questions:

I think so; I'd imagine so; I doubt it; Probably less....

...but I'm an English teacher, so you might want to ask one of our more expert members. :)
 
Prometheus said:
In order of your questions:

I think so; I'd imagine so; I doubt it; Probably less....

...but I'm an English teacher, so you might want to ask one of our more expert members. :)
Click to expand...

Well I'm an accountant and it was the business model that really attracted my attention. I have very little other information about the science and technology since it's all Wiki junk and promo from the entrepreneur.

The thing that caught my ear, though, was the claim that a car costing half a billion in public money, producing scarcely 100 a month, priced at $100,000, and apparently having a waiting list for orders, was contemplating lowering the sticker price. Alarm bells go off directly. If people are lining up for your thing then you must properly raise the price and not lower it.

Are there any scientists here? Can anyone answer the technical questions? Does the thing work?

EDIT: Before I forget, Prometheus, thanks for answering!!
 
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