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Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Mr Clingford said:
Wiki is a start on kenosis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosis
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the concept reads like a superhero comic. It makes great literature to have the supremely good character imbued with flaws. Kenosis gives excuse to why a god on earth character would be flawed. You can't have your main god character simply be immune to everything, it'd get boring. But why would the actual god do this? It's a self-invented limitation that he's created and one that is negated by the concept of miracles. Why would he bother with it?

If he really had to give up "god-hood" to be man, than he should have no miracle ability. If he has miracle ability, then he's not really man.
 
kurious_kathy said:
What are you referring to with this statement? Jesus could not be trapped into saying something the Pharasees wanted to use against him, he is God so he knows everyone thoughts and motives.

And the reason for the parables I guess is because only he who has an ear can respond to the Holy Spirit. Can you even grasp what that means? Jesus's sheep hear his voice but for those who are perishing the message of the cross is foolishness. I suggest now would be a good time for everyone to seek the Lord while he still may be found.
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Proof that jesus was god please. Anyway,I thought that your sort believed that he was the son of god.
 
Originally Posted by kurious_kathy View Post
"There is plenty of evidence of Jesus in his world he created and only those who are lost deny it."



Present it. Simply saying it is so, doesn't make it so.


YES.Stop preaching at us,it's no use here,why you keep doing it is a mystery to me.Maybe you think that you are racking up points with your sky daddy.Present us with some evidence for your statements or leave us alone.
 
joobz said:
the concept reads like a superhero comic. It makes great literature to have the supremely good character imbued with flaws. Kenosis gives excuse to why a god on earth character would be flawed. You can't have your main god character simply be immune to everything, it'd get boring. But why would the actual god do this? It's a self-invented limitation that he's created and one that is negated by the concept of miracles. Why would he bother with it?

If he really had to give up "god-hood" to be man, than he should have no miracle ability. If he has miracle ability, then he's not really man.
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My understanding is that comics have been very successful in America; the USA has had a lot of exposure to Xtian and Jewish stories; the superhero is a saving/ messiah figure; therefore it is not surprising that the concept reads like a superhero comic as the OT and NT form a backdrop to superhero comics.

Come on, in the Xtian mythos many people have performed miracles, not just Jesus; ability to perform miracles has no bearing on whether one is the Son of God.
 
kurious_kathy said:
What are you referring to with this statement? Jesus could not be trapped into saying something the Pharasees wanted to use against him, he is God so he knows everyone thoughts and motives.
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Indeed.
That was Joobz' whole point that I was agreeing with:

joobz said:
certainly a wise thing for a man to do. But are we talking about Jesus as a man or Jesus as a god (which is what DOC believes?).

If Jesus was a god, and god played verbal games to avoid getting into trouble, what Kind of lesson am I to gain from such a god?
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Jesus, being magical and all, knew this question was coming before the Pharisee even thought of it.
He could have avoided taking that way and avoided meeting the Pharisee and this confrontation, he could have erased the question (or his answer) from the Pharisee's mind or make everybody hear something different.

Instead, we have a semantic game, a dodge, a non-answer. It was the clever thing to do, obviously, but the clever thing to do for a human.
 
Simon39759 said:
Boy; this is fun!
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I reckon its sad that kk, DOC and all other willfully ignorant, ardent bible thumpers seem to think believe that the circular (il)logic of blind faith and lying for Jesus of woo is preferable to the uphill struggle of observation and refined understanding of reality
 
Mr Clingford said:
Come on, in the Xtian mythos many people have performed miracles, not just Jesus; ability to perform miracles has no bearing on whether one is the Son of God.
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I agree. Very good point. So, outside of the fact that we must take Jesus at his word, How do we know he's God as well? This sort of goes toward the question of did jesus really claim to be divine question.
 
joobz said:
I agree. Very good point. So, outside of the fact that we must take Jesus at his word, How do we know he's God as well? This sort of goes toward the question of did jesus really claim to be divine question.
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In which case, it must be made clear that, even if he used the term: 'son of God', this would not necessarily be claiming divinity, as the term was often applied to human prophets...
 
Simon39759 said:
In which case, it must be made clear that, even if he used the term: 'son of God', this would not necessarily be claiming divinity, as the term was often applied to human prophets...
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I am pretty sure that Jesus never referred to himself as the "Son of God" (IIRC, he called himself the "Son of Man" in John), but it was the various authors of the NT. And yes, in most cases where "Son of God" is used, it is to tie in with the OT prophets.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Oooops I really should not try to stay up so late typing as I always have typos. Thanks for the help I fixed eathen to earthen.

As for the creation of the world just start with the planet. Do you not find it astounding that earth is different than all other planets created just for us to inhabit? No other planet is like ours and that shows obvious to me God created it just for us. There is more scientific documentary help out there on just this one subject. I find Moody institute did one of the best ones on this.
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So where in the bible does it mention all these other planets? Did god not create them? Also, if god did create this world for us to live on, why did he create those other planets devoid of life? Whats the point of creating an infinite universe and billions of stars and planets if the only planet with life is this one?

also Romans 1:19-20 says since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse
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So, just how can you see invisible qualities? Please don't go the way of trotting out the old phrase "well we can't see the wind but its effects can be seen".
 
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KarlG said:
So where in the bible does it mention all these other planets? Did god not create them? Also, if god did create this world for us to live on, why did he create those other planets devoid of life? Whats the point of creating an infinite universe and billions of stars and planets if the only planet with life is this one?
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Any good contractor knows that the profit isn't made on the original design, but on the change orders.
 
kurious_kathy said:
As for the creation of the world just start with the planet. Do you not find it astounding that earth is different than all other planets created just for us to inhabit? No other planet is like ours and that shows obvious to me God created it just for us.
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First, we don't know that "earth is different than all other planets," since we haven't been to all other planets. There are bajillions of them, you realize? There are almost certainly others like Earth out there. Whether any of them have life remains to be seen.

More important, though, is the fact that, just because the Earth is habitable to us, this in no means proves (or even implies) it was "created just for us." If - and you have to bear with me on this, but if - all life on Earth evolved, then it stands to reason that it would evolve to be adapted to the environment it evolved in. We breathe our particular mix of nitrogen/oxygen/etc. because we evolved on a planet with this particular mix of nitrogen/oxygen/etc. for us to adapt to breathing. We drink water because we evolved on a planet with plenty of water for us to adapt to drinking. We are able to digest the particular foods we do because we evolved on a planet with these particular foods available for us to adapt to digesting. Evolution by its very definition is the process of organisms adapting over time to their environments. So we (and everything else alive on Earth) adapted over time to the environment we evolved in, which happened to be Earth.

On your "perfectly created just for us" planet, how do you explain the toxins that are here? Foods that are poisonous to us? If everything was designed and created "just for us," why are these foods even here? It should be that if it tastes good and we want to eat it, then it's good for us. Why doesn't everything that's good for us taste wonderful? If I were creating a wonderful world for my minions, I would at least make turnips taste like ice cream for them! It's only fair.

Why are there creatures that can kill us here? Why are there plagues? Why are there places too cold for us to survive? Why are there deserts where we will die of thirst and heat? (Of course, there are other creatures that can live in all of those places, because they've...gasp!...evolved to be adapted to those environments.)

You've got it backwards, kathy. Earth isn't perfect for us because it was designed for us. Earth is perfect for us because we evolved on it, adapting to it so that we fit what it has to offer. If you really, truly look at it this way, you'll see it's really a much better explanation. It fits the facts much more reasonably. It just doesn't fit into your stubbornly pre-conceived notions of your god and your fairy-tale book.
 
wolfgirl said:
You've got it backwards, kathy. Earth isn't perfect for us because it was designed for us. Earth is perfect for us because we evolved on it, adapting to it so that we fit what it has to offer. If you really, truly look at it this way, you'll see it's really a much better explanation. It fits the facts much more reasonably. It just doesn't fit into your stubbornly pre-conceived notions of your god and your fairy-tale book.
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". . . imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’"

- Douglas Adams, 1998
 
X said:
". . . imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, ‘This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn’t it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!’"

- Douglas Adams, 1998
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Remember, he was an Atheist.

Paul

:) :) :)

We know the joke, do you.
 
Paulhoff said:
Remember, he was an Atheist.
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I thought that was pretty well-known, especially round here; I'm not exactly sure what point you're making. Does his being an atheist affect the truth of what he said, which is basically a statement of the anthropic principle?
 
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