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how about trickle UP???

How much is 40-million x $1-miillion? What fantastic number results from that equation?
 
dudalb said:
Agreed, but it was the general tone of lefty's post, the use of loaded terms like Robber Baron that irritated me.
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It fit jerks like those at the financial products division of AIG.

It fits Halliburton. It fits Murdoch.
 
WildCat said:
But all this would be likely to do is spur inflation and create a bubble which would burst soon enough and then we'd be right back where we started from, or worse.
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Actually, we would be better off. People who had bought homes would have their homes, GM, re-organized and pressured to build decent cars, would be able to sell cars and restore the pension benefitsthey screwed up (if the unions get their act together) and the people who bought into Ponzi schemes like the derivatives market would be stuck with nothing. Any new commerce would then, if proper regulations are re-instated, be based on production and distribution of actual value.

Works for me.
 
Ziggurat said:
So the solution to our economic problems is to drastically cut our economic output? Why would that help?
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I believe that the point made was that 40-million Americans take early retirement with their Million Bucks, and the jobs they leave will then be available for 40-million other workers, under the age of 50.

By the way, I'm still surprised that nobody noticed that the amount of money the proposal would require is
$40,000,000,000,000 (forty trillion)

In other words, the proposal is using bogus numbers.

To put it in perspective, the world's total GDP in 2007 was $57,000,000,000,000
 
webfusion said:
I believe that the point made was that 40-million Americans take early retirement with their Million Bucks,
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Dumping money into the system is not the same as dumping wealth into the system. All it does is transfer existing wealth to people who will no longer be productive, and devalue the currency in the process.

and the jobs they leave will then be available for 40-million other workers, under the age of 50.
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And why do those 40 million not already have the jobs that are being given up? Because generally speaking, they're not as productive workers and the ones who are retiring (if they were, they'd have equivalent jobs already). So you've just tanked worker productivity as well. Furthermore, many of those jobs would simply be eliminated because of the decrease in available workers with sufficient skill.

Forcing people not to work in order to make more work for other people won't succeed, because there is no lump sum of labor which needs to be performed. The demand for labor will change with its productivity, and if you sink productivity, you sink demand. That's why France's 35-hour work week didn't solve their unemployment problem. Your support for this idea is apparently not serious, but the logic behind it is sadly quite common.
 
Zig, I think the entire thing is just a dumb joke, yes, and circulated by know-nothings in emails because they think it really sounds good.
 
Ziggurat said:
And why do those 40 million not already have the jobs that are being given up? Because generally speaking, they're not as productive workers and the ones who are retiring (if they were, they'd have equivalent jobs already). So you've just tanked worker productivity as well. Furthermore, many of those jobs would simply be eliminated because of the decrease in available workers with sufficient skill.
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"The poor are poor because they are lazy." Riiiight. Seems to me we heard that out of a total waste of skin who somehow became POTUS a while back. He was as wrong as you are. Don't blame the working poor for the mess we are in.

Any stimulus that does not go to increasing the demand for domestic production is, as noted elsewhere, a losing game. Enabling big xorporations to move the supply off shore got us where we are, not the demands of workers for a living wage.

The demand for labor will change with its productivity, and if you sink productivity, you sink demand. That's why France's 35-hour work week didn't solve their unemployment problem. Your support for this idea is apparently not serious, but the logic behind it is sadly quite common.
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Care top provide some evidence for this bit of woo?
 
Skeptic said:
What! And join the EXPLOITING, EVIL classes??? Why would the workers want to do that?!
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Most of the living-wage jobs I have had since retiring from the military were provided by middle-class people who had saved enough money to start a business.

Phil "No poor person ever gave me a job" Gramm is an idiot. No poor person needs what that lunatic has tro offer. Middle-class business people know he and his kind are not their friends, but the allies of the Walton larvae.
 
leftysergeant said:
"The poor are poor because they are lazy." Riiiight.
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Nice strawman. Productivity is a measure of output, not effort. And the primary reason older workers generally have higher productivity is because they have more skill. Because they've had more time to acquire skill. The same person's productivity will generally rise over time, along with their salary.

Don't blame the working poor for the mess we are in.
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I didn't. Next time, spend a little more effort trying to understand what I actually said. You clearly don't have the hang of this whole reading comprehension thing yet.
 
leftysergeant said:
"The poor are poor because they are lazy." Riiiight. Seems to me we heard that out of a total waste of skin who somehow became POTUS a while back. He was as wrong as you are. Don't blame the working poor for the mess we are in.
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HINT: It usually isn't because they're lazy, but barring a severe medical issue, they're poor because they keep making the same stupid ass mistakes that cost them money. It isn't Rush Limbaugh's fault they're not making good choices, it isn't W's, it isn't Rupert Murdoch, it's their own. I know it kills you to hear this, and I know you'll just deny, deny, deny, but there it is.
 
Cobalt said:
HINT: It usually isn't because they're lazy, but barring a severe medical issue, they're poor because they keep making the same stupid ass mistakes that cost them money.
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The only dumb mistake that they made as a class was when they had unionm jobs and voted for dirt-dumb Ronnie and the Bush and the Shrub and screwed up the ecconomy.

What kind of dumb mistakes are you talking about? Sounds like the same old blame the victim crap that the GOP has been spewing since jelly-brain's presidency in 1981.
 
leftysergeant said:
The only dumb mistake that they made as a class was when they had unionm jobs and voted for dirt-dumb Ronnie and the Bush and the Shrub and screwed up the ecconomy.
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No it wasn't just them, but thanks for playing!

leftysergeant said:
What kind of dumb mistakes are you talking about? Sounds like the same old blame the victim crap that the GOP has been spewing since jelly-brain's presidency in 1981.
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Lets see. We'll just go with the example of a family who can barely support their child. They have another child. How are they going to move up if they're too ****ing stupid to slap on a rubber? **** like that isn't being a victim, it's being irresponsible and plain stupid.
 
Cobalt said:
Lets see. We'll just go with the example of a family who can barely support their child. They have another child. How are they going to move up if they're too ****ing stupid to slap on a rubber? **** like that isn't being a victim, it's being irresponsible and plain stupid.
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We have the fundies (far right) telling them thaty God disapproves of condoms, and that they are supposed to breed an army of Christian soldiers to prepare for Armageddon, and they have idiots in government health agencies telling them that abstinence is the only effective birth control method.

They also have cheerleaders for the right wing telling them that there is an unlimited opportunity to move up, so expect to be doing better and to be able to feed the rug rats.

Then you have the vast numbers of families who thought they were on their way up, but who found themselvews without a job as the investor class abandoned them for off shore sources.

There are a hell of a lot of impoverished people right now who had it all before jelly-brained Ronnie's bubble ecconomy burst.

Don't blame the people who bought into your Republican woo-woo for their own poverty while you still advocate the same crap that got us here.
 
leftysergeant said:
We have the fundies (far right) telling them thaty God disapproves of condoms, and that they are supposed to breed an army of Christian soldiers to prepare for Armageddon, and they have idiots in government health agencies telling them that abstinence is the only effective birth control method.
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Pathetic excuse. Not every moron having more kids than they can feed worships god, and not all Christians follow the Bible to the letter. You should visit reality and actually know what you're talking about before you make lame generalizations.

leftysergeant said:
They also have cheerleaders for the right wing telling them that there is an unlimited opportunity to move up, so expect to be doing better and to be able to feed the rug rats.
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Well if they didn't have kids they couldn't afford, or use their welfare check to buy twenty inch rims for their rusted Cadillac maybe they could.

leftysergeant said:
Then you have the vast numbers of families who thought they were on their way up, but who found themselvews without a job as the investor class abandoned them for off shore sources.
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That sucks for them. But they could find another one. If you just sit there and bitch, your situation isn't going to improve. And just so you know, the job doesn't belong to the employee, it belongs to the employer. They're free to do with it whatever they wish. I know that makes you just so mad.

leftysergeant said:
There are a hell of a lot of impoverished people right now who had it all before jelly-brained Ronnie's bubble ecconomy burst.
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Again, quit bitching and do something about it.


leftysergeant said:
Don't blame the people who bought into your Republican woo-woo for their own poverty while you still advocate the same crap that got us here.
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Not a republican, kiddo. I'm one of those poor people, and I actually know it's my own damn fault. But guess what?! I'm gonna ****ing DO something about it! I'm not content to sit around and piss away my life, I'm actually going to make something of it. I want to drive a slick Alpine White M5. I want a nice house. And I'm going to make it happen.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume things about me anymore, boyo.
 
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