Molten Steel

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Another non-answer. You said there are alternative answers. You are making that up and you know it. Name one or stop making that claim.

Liar. I listed several alternate explanations for claims of molten steel. You must have read the post; you quoted from it.

The fact that you are able to post online suggests that your IQ is at least marginally above that of a potted fern; the remaining possibility is that you are deliberately choosing to misrepresent my words, as you have deliberately chosen to misrepresent the words of your witnesses.

You are lying. I'd say you are lying again, but it appears that you are lying still. You never stopped.
 
Irrelevant. The falling molten steel was pale yellow to orange in the videos.

Orange to pale yellow is 2100-2700[FONT=&quot]°[/FONT]F

Aren't you even going try to defend your claim.

Because any change in the lighting and/or color of the picture is very relevant to knowing what tempature the metal is based only on the color of it.
 
I listed several alternate explanations for claims of molten steel. You must have read the post; you quoted from it.
Double talk. You listed alternate explanations for claims of molten steel.

You did NOT offer any explanation for what melted the steel.

What melted the steel?
 
C7 said:
Irrelevant. The falling molten steel was pale yellow to orange in the videos.

Orange to pale yellow is 2100-2700[FONT="]°[/FONT][/COLOR]F [/quote]
[QUOTE="TokenMac, post: 4584109, member: 30730"]Aren't you even going try to defend your claim.
No. The exact color in the photo is irrelevant. It's just a single moment in time.

Because any change in the lighting and/or color of the picture is very relevant to knowing what tempature the metal is based only on the color of it.
You totally ignored what I said.

The falling molten steel was pale yellow to orange in the videos.

Orange to pale yellow is 2100-2700[FONT="]°[/FONT]F
 
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We don't have melted steel. We have claims of melted steel, and melted metal, and molten metal all rolled up and confabulated together in a big fuzzy ball of paranoia.
Your assumption that every person who was quoted regarding seeing evidence that the debris piles were pretty darn hot all saw the same thing, and described it precisely without any ambiguity or exaggeration, is a poor one.
 
No. The exact color in the photo is irrelevant. It's just a single moment in time.

You totally ignored what I said.

Again!
Steel solidifies very quickly after leaving the heat source. It would not act like a liquid after a time span of seconds.
You really have to go visit a foundry and actually see how wrong your claim is.
 
Double talk. You listed alternate explanations for claims of molten steel.

You did NOT offer any explanation for what melted the steel.
That is because A) actual melted steel is only one of the possible reasons for claims of melted steel, and B) the preponderance of the physical evidence is inconsistent with actual melted steel.

The plain truth, C7, is that you have presented us with claims. As you yourself say, "[w]e are talking about what the witnesses said". And that is precisely what we are talking about. Their claims.

What melted the steel?
You need to present evidence that this particular reason is the best explanation for the claims of molten steel before anyone is obligated to explain how the steel melted.. Right now, you have not even come close.

Your desperate lies could be seen as evidence that you know how slim your case is. If you knew you had the evidence, you would gladly welcome the chance to show it. You keep pounding the same drum, taking your witnesses' claims out of context and hiding behind their skirts when people call you out on your lies. This is despicable cowardly behavior; the only bright side is that your efforts are utterly impotent.
 
No. The exact color in the photo is irrelevant. It's just a single moment in time.
Again, as I asked before, what are your qualifications for making this statement? To the best of my knowledge, you are quite wrong. The exact color is not just relevant, it is extremely important, and because of unknowns with regard to lighting and camera variables, it is unknowable.
You totally ignored what I said.
A wise move under any circumstances.
The falling molten steel was pale yellow to orange in the videos.

Orange to pale yellow is 2100-2700[FONT="]°[/FONT]F
I am certain you have all the relevant information about ambient light, camera settings, white balance, contrast, etc.? Please provide it. While you are at it, could you explain for the uninformed reader why all those things are important?
 
We don't have melted steel.
There is no other explanation for the falling molten metal. It has been suggested that it was lead but there is no documentation to support that.

Furthermore, NIST said:
[FONT=&quot]"It was expected, and soon confirmed, that the fires could generate temperatures up to 1,100°C.[/FONT]"
NIST Final 1-A pg 132

1,100[FONT=&quot]°C = 2,000[/FONT][FONT=&quot]°F
The videos show that the falling molten steel was much hotter than that.
[/FONT]
 
Again, as I asked before, what are your qualifications for making this statement?
What part of "irrelevant" don't you understand?

To the best of my knowledge, you are quite wrong. The exact color is not just relevant, it is extremely important,
The exact color is NOT extremely important. What part of "estimate" don't you understand?

The video shows a range of color from pale yellow to orange.
 
Double talk. You listed alternate explanations for claims of molten steel.

You did NOT offer any explanation for what melted the steel.

What melted the steel?
There are two possible methods which could have been used to melt the steel:
1) Lots of thermate/thermite; OR
2) An on site furnace.

"1)" requires an onsite crew to assemble the equipment AFTER the plane impact - so an heroic act by those persons whether Middle East terrorists OR GW bush loyalist menbers of the conspiracy team.

"2)" requires a furnace and energy source of suitable size installed, also after the plane impact, so both a logistic achievement worthy of the Guinness Book of Records and a requirement for heroism of a very high level.

I don't wish to present a false dichotomy here Christopher7 so do you have an alternative which I have missed??? :confused:
 
I messed up on the multi qoutes some how so the parts in blue are C7's

No. The exact color in the photo is irrelevant. It's just a single moment in time.
What does it being "a moment in time" have do do with the color of the metal(or anything)?

You totally ignored what I said.
No I didn't I commented on how if the color was changed (not saying that is was) then it would be unwise to draw a conclusion based only on the color.

The falling molten steel was pale yellow to orange in the videos.

Orange to pale yellow is 2100-2700

Stop yelling

Now lets say the color of the molten metal was really more a reddish orange, so if I increase the brightness and/or raise the contrast in the photo then it would look lighter, i.e. more yellow or orange.

Again I am not saying the picture where changed I am just pointing out that they could have been, and if they were then judging almost anything in them by color alone is very unwise.

Also even pictures that have not been changed in any way aren't the best way to judge color, with the white balance a little of or the shutter opened wider/set faster colors can be very off.

P.S.
OK final thought others have suggested the metal could be lead, aluminum, glass, or a mixture of metals so if any of those are what we are seeing then how would your color scale be useful? I only ask because every time some one says something other than steel you say "the witness said molten steel" then ask how the steel melted, which doesn't work for the metal seen coming out of the 80Th floor because no one was there to test it or even look at it up close.

Why is steel for you the only thing that could melt and the only thing that could pool?
 
C7 said:
You did NOT offer any explanation for what melted the steel.
That is because A) actual melted steel is only one of the possible reasons for claims of melted steel,
Thank you for finally admitting you did not give an explanation for the molten steel.

and B) the preponderance of the physical evidence is inconsistent with actual melted steel.
? ? ?
What physical evidence?

The plain truth, C7, is that you have presented us with claims. As you yourself say, "[w]e are talking about what the witnesses said". And that is precisely what we are talking about. Their claims.
You don't believe them.
You are saying that the witnesses are just claiming there was molten steel.
You are claiming that they are all wrong.
Who has more credibility?
A bunch of anonymous people who call anyone who doubts the OCT a liar?
Or the professionals who were there?
Who should people believe?
 
Now lets say the color of the molten metal was really more a reddish orange,
That's absurd. A color shift from pale yellow to reddish orange would throw everything so far out the photo would look totally bizarre. Try it. Video cameras may be a little off but not that much by a long shot. You are desperately trying to deny the obvious.

The falling molten metal was pale yellow to orange.
There is a possibility that it was lead but so far there has been no evidence to support that claim.

OK final thought others have suggested the metal could be lead, aluminum, glass, or a mixture of metals so if any of those are what we are seeing then how would your color scale be useful?
Aluminum shines silvery in daylight. There is no precedent or scientific evidence to support the NIST claim that it was aluminum.
There was not enough glass or other metals to account for the amount of molten metal.
These are just fanciful desires of people who just can't accept anything that undermines the OCT.


Why is steel for you the only thing that could melt and the only thing that could pool?
I never said it was.
 
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It was a joke and I'm glad you got a laugh out of it.

I got a kick out of this reply-in-kind:

"Maybe he means open hearth rocket surgery." :D

So Chris, you demonstrate that you have a sense of humor, which is a good thing. Now, step back and rationally think through your position. Don't search the internet or look for things that support what you want to believe, but ask yourself a few questions.

Who perpetrated 9/11?

What did they gain?

How did they plan it?

How did they execute this plan?

Is it even possible to accomplish their goals considering the location of the buildings, the number of people involved in the plot and the number of people who they would have to work around?

Do you want it to be true that it is a government plot?

Is the war in Iraq your driving force behind finding the truth? Hatred of the Republicans?


I am not asking you to answer these questions here, but just to do a little soul searching. Look at the scope of the plot and the feasibility of actually pulling it off.
 
I don't have a JREF album.

Why not? You can load pics into to it and link them here. I thought everyone could do that?

C7 said:
No documentation has been posted here.

he has posted docs there about the layout. Does it not count if not linked here?

C7 said:
The 'debunking' video said 30 tons. I think that is a bit high but 'tons' is a reasonable description.

Someone has already mentioned the 70 tonnes of aluminium from the video. I will leave you to answer their post.

C7 said:
Nickel-cadmium. This has been discussed recently on this thread.

Wrong, you are making it up and were shown to be wrong when you googled it and linked to something that was ierrelevant. People here with experience also told you that was incorrect. Why dont you contact the company?

C7 said:
They did not so far as I know.

Then maybe you should email them?

Care to admit I was correct about your cowardly "it fake" claim? Or just continue to ignore it when you are shown up for being dishonest and hypocritical?
 
There is no other explanation for the falling molten metal. It has been suggested that it was lead but there is no documentation to support that.

There is no "documentation" to support steel as the molten metal, either.
 
Thank you for finally admitting you did not give an explanation for the molten steel.

That's because there was no liquid steel.

Here is short video showing how little damage ONE THOUSAND POUNDS OF THERMITE does to a SUV, maybe 3,000 pounds of steel.


Mythbusters Toast 1/2 Ton of Thermite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPAYZMzGMwQ


In your mind, scale this up to the video we have of 10s of tons of liquid metal flowing from one floor of one WTC tower.

Notice that there are no pools of liquid steel and that people can approach the wreck within minutes of the end of the burn.

Notice how relatively little slag there is.

Notice that Thermite doesn't work horizontally. It runs away because when it's burning, it is effectively a liquid.

Notice that the much of the thermite not in actual contact with steel is wasted. There is a limit to how much thermite that can be applied to a beam that will actually heat the beam. Once thermite as turned to slag, it is hot but not hot enough to melt steel.

Notice how large and bulky a half ton of thermite is.

How many tons of thermite would be required and where would it be put?

That floor was occupied by Fuji Bank and it's not like the floors were empty and waiting for the truck to deliver the thermite. The floors were full of UPS equipment and the equipment powered by the UPS. There was no room for the quantity of thermite required.

A bank and its computer system are covered by several independent layers of security. No one person can turn it off or ignore an alarm.

All of your empty assertions of themite and molten steel amount to nothing and the only information you have to support it amounts to sloppy use of the English language and unquestioned rumor and metaphor and hyperbole.

There was lots of sloppy English, metaphor and hyperbole and simile in use on and after 9/11, frequently by people that should know better. And lots of rumors, too.

The only thing that counts is physical evidence. there is no physical evidence for previously liquid steel at WTC.
 
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What is the composition and temperature of the following?

picture5o.png


ETA: Try to do this without looking at the hints

Need a hint?
They use it to make bells, helpful enough?
Ok, it's molten brass.
 
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