When did "The Dark Tower" novels jump the shark?

[Robert Oz]

I've been reading Stephen King's "The Dark Tower" novels and am about a third of the way through "Wizard and Glass" (Book 4).

The books, so far, have been fantastic, but I have been struggling to keep my interest up from the point where Roland begins to tell his back story to Eddie, Susannah and Jake (i.e. the love story with Susan). I'm about 100 pages into the back story and am still waiting for a plot to unfold. King seems to not want the reader to know exactly what's going on until some time down the track, but the new characters aren't gripping enough to keep me focussed on the story.

Do you think the story jumped the shark at any point? If so, when do you think it jumped the shark?

If the book doesn't pick up again, I will be very disappointed. I thought "The Gunslinger" was okay, "The Drawing of the Three" was absolutely brilliant and the best book I've read in the series (by far) and "The Waste Lands" was great. Even Wizard and Glass was great until it gets to the back story.

What does everyone else think? Does it get better again?

 

[SRW]

I read them all the way through the third one, then for some reason there was a gap and I got tired of waiting for the forth. I Never did start it. Could be I heard some bad reviews or what ever.

 

[Reeco]

For me this series did indeed fall flat on its face, but at a much later point than Wizard & Glass, which I really enjoyed.

 

[tomwaits]

Wizard and Glass was my favorite of the series. I'd say it "jumped the shark" after that, probably due to his personal problems. Him getting hit by a car seems to have really affected his ability to write. In addition, I think he got scared that he might die without having finished the DT series, so he quickly wrote the last three in one burst, which had the result of making them less than memorable. The final book was enjoyable, but Song of Susannah probably never should have been written.

 

[Denver]

It not only jumps the shark, but later the shark even gets frickin laser beams attached to its head. I don't want to spoil anything for you, but from what I recall, you're instincts will be more than justified the more you read.

 

[tomwaits]

Even Wizard and Glass was great until it gets to the back story.

Umm dude...the back story is practically the entire book. If you don't like it, you're not going to be very happy. Personally, I loved it.

 

[Praktik]

Yes, I also loved Wizard and Glass.

Wolves of Calla was fantastic also.

To be honest I actually thought the Drawing of the Three was the weakest of them all - I only truly enjoyed the mob-story in New York and couldn't wait for him to draw the other two so we could get on with things. I dunno, just found it more of a slog.

I dont think this series jumped the shark at all actually. I thought it was pretty strong all the way through with the exception of some moments in book 2.

 

[RobRoy]

I did not like Wizard and Glass, and I actually put it down after about 100 pages. A good friend of mine who was reading the series as well said that I would pick it up some day, and right about the time that the next book was releasing, I did indeed pick it back up as I was looking for more fodder for my train commutes.

I have to say that while not my favorite, it does deliver. If The Dark Tower series can be said to have jumped the shark anywhere, it is when King started crossing his other novels with this one, trying to make this story the "real story" and all the others just some pale versions. But since I've never read anything else by King, most of the references either didn't make sense, so I ignored them, or were explained within the context, which made them work.

That said, I ended up enjoying the entire series all the way through to the end, and I've found it one of the most satisfying in some time. It's an entertaining series, and there is a re-read value in it for me. I still think that he should have stopped after the first book, which was a work of pure genuis, but he didn't, and so the work is worthwhile, but not great.

 

[dudalb]

I think when he attempted to tie every novel he ever wrote into the Dark Tower Saga.

 

[theprestige]

The self-insertion was what did it for me.

 

[RobRoy]

The self-insertion was what did it for me.

But he was so brutal about himself. It was actually pretty cool. Like a mini-biography about what a lush and lazy bum he had been, how unhealthy his lifestyle had become and so forth.

 

[tomwaits]

I think when he attempted to tie every novel he ever wrote into the Dark Tower Saga.

I kind of liked that feature. A lot of people accused him of using this tactic to sort of "force" DT fans to buy his new books. Personally, it seemed to me just something he picked up from H.P. Lovecraft, of whom King is a big fan. The idea that all of the stories form a part of a sort of greater mythology is prevalent in Lovecraft's stories, and King was probably imitating that.

 

[RobRoy]

I kind of liked that feature. A lot of people accused him of using this tactic to sort of "force" DT fans to buy his new books. Personally, it seemed to me just something he picked up from H.P. Lovecraft, of whom King is a big fan. The idea that all of the stories form a part of a sort of greater mythology is prevalent in Lovecraft's stories, and King was probably imitating that.

But if you had to pick a point where King jumped the shark, would you say this was it?

 

[tomwaits]

But if you had to pick a point where King jumped the shark, would you say this was it?

No, I would say it was when he got hit by a car.

The whole thing about connecting it to other stories goes back a loooong way. IIRC, Roland mentions Randall Flagg in either The Gunslinger or The Drawing of the Three. It all sort of stemmed from that.

ETA: And when I say that he mentions Flagg, I don't mean Walter, who was then retconned into actually being Flagg. Roland specifically mentions Flagg, and it would appear that King's original idea was that they were two separate people.

 

[RobRoy]

No, I would say it was when he got hit by a car.

That's a reasonable answer. I think, if it happened, it happened earlier than that. I just wanted to know what your opinion was.

ETA: And when I say that he mentions Flagg, I don't mean Walter, who was then retconned into actually being Flagg. Roland specifically mentions Flagg, and it would appear that King's original idea was that they were two separate people.

I believe that would be in The Wastelands, the third book of the series. Flagg is never specifically mentioned prior to that in my faulty knowledge.

 

[dudalb]

I kind of liked that feature. A lot of people accused him of using this tactic to sort of "force" DT fans to buy his new books. Personally, it seemed to me just something he picked up from H.P. Lovecraft, of whom King is a big fan. The idea that all of the stories form a part of a sort of greater mythology is prevalent in Lovecraft's stories, and King was probably imitating that.

I disagree. Lovecraft wrote a number of stories that had nothing to do with the "Cthuluhu Mythos" and never attempted to "retcon" them into one universe.
Asimov tried to shoehorn all his stories into one coherent "universe" and failed. I think King will do the same.

 

[Robert Oz]

Wizard and Glass was my favorite of the series. I'd say it "jumped the shark" after that, probably due to his personal problems. Him getting hit by a car seems to have really affected his ability to write. In addition, I think he got scared that he might die without having finished the DT series, so he quickly wrote the last three in one burst, which had the result of making them less than memorable. The final book was enjoyable, but Song of Susannah probably never should have been written.

Umm dude...the back story is practically the entire book. If you don't like it, you're not going to be very happy. Personally, I loved it.

I have to say, last night Wizard and Glass FINALLY got me hooked. Like I said the first 150 pages was the conclusion of the Blaine riddle challenge (which I thought was great) and then it went into Roland's back story.

Now for the next 150 pages, I thought the story had become very slow and dull, but last night I got to the stand off between Roland, Cuthbert and Alain, and Jonas and his goons. It was exactly what I needed to get interested in all the new characters.

I put my comment that Roland's back story is where the series jumps the shark on hold. Wizard and Glass may deliver yet.

 

[Robert Oz]

I think he got scared that he might die without having finished the DT series, so he quickly wrote the last three in one burst, which had the result of making them less than memorable.

This makes a lot of sense. In the introduction or afterward of "The Waste Lands", King apologises for stopping the story at such a crucial point, but says that he finds it difficult to enter into Roland's world (or something like that) and he can't force it.

Considering he wrote the last three very quickly in one hit, it sounds like he did indeed force it and the story suffers as a result.

Of course, I can't say for certain, not having read the last three yet.

 

[Robert Oz]

To be honest I actually thought the Drawing of the Three was the weakest of them all...

Blasphemy.

 

[tomwaits]

I disagree. Lovecraft wrote a number of stories that had nothing to do with the "Cthuluhu Mythos" and never attempted to "retcon" them into one universe.

And King has written tons of books that have nothing to do with the Dark Tower. Did you not know that?

In addition, Lovecraft also even attempted to merge his "Dream Cycle" stories with the Cthuluhu Mythos. He seemed to find it an interesting literary device, and I have to agree.