www.StopVisionFromFeeling.com - Volunteers Needed

[Uncayimmy]

You seem confused. You are accusing UY of harming VfF. UY says he does not believe VfF's claims. Two different things.

He's propped up the straw man that says that I must believe that Anita could cause harm (or has caused harm) otherwise I would not have made the site. Apparently that's a requirement in the Big Book of Stop Woo Sites.

He also said that if I think she's delusional, then it is "morally indefensible" for me to have set up the website.

 

[tsig]

I don't "have to" do any such thing. You're setting up all sorts of straw men here, which I am finding to be typical of you in this discussion. I am also finding that you are ignoring the questions asked of you and points refuted as you keep plodding on with ever-increasing vigor and drama.

As I have said several times before, the only major difference between what I am doing on my site and what I and others have been doing here for months is that it is happening on a different server with a different domain name.



Did you happen to catch the subject of this thread? I'm looking for volunteers to help flesh out the site, which is only a couple of days old. In the meantime I provide links to literally hundreds of thousands of words about VFF. It's going to take some time to distill that down.

Beyond that, I've read your points. I disagree with many of your assumptions as well as your logic. I just don't feel it's worth it arguing with you.

I'm getting a Vision no wait it's a Feeling that TEEK will not volunteer. Unless she does.

 

[Moochie]

UY, if there's any way I can assist with the site, I'll gladly do so. From a critical point of view, I agree with the "eliminating of the sarcasm" someone suggested. Let this site be a worthy testament to critical thinking and reason.


M.

 

[plumjam]

Here you go jumping right in to the legal «analogy». Prior to this we were talking about mere criticism. Tip: To do an analogy, it is often an advantage to be familiar with the subject of comparison. Which you do not know as well as you think you do. This was what I responded to. And is doing for the last time.



Fixed that for you Again, I rebutted your «argument», which are only unsubstantiated and uneducated guesses, based on, I don't know, mild paranoia and simple misunderstandings. It only goes to show your complete lack of understanding of simple ethics. Dangerous behaviour: bad. Non-dangerous behaviour: good.

Plenty of regulations prohibits dangerous behaviour, without threatening anyones right to a fair trial. One can even say that it is ethical to criticize a person who is acting dangerously. I don't expect you to see the parallelle.

By the way....Oh NO, I just read up on what Iraqi WMD is... pheew, glad I didn't fall for that. When are you bringing up Adolf? He surely must fit here somewhere.

But in all fairness: I shall not fall for your derailing again.

Seems like you're losing your cool, which is a shame.
Maybe it's the frustration of realising that no matter how much you twist and squirm in argumentation, the bottom line is that unless you can produce some (any) evidence then you have no case whatsoever.
That would explain why you keep studiously avoiding the matter.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

But you already did tell me that I am a potential murderer and rapist, remember? I gave you an overly polite answer to that accusation and why it is more than inaccurate.

But why are you saying that I am dangerous? I've shown you why your accusation against me is also unfounded.

You have stated several times that you diagnose people with your superpowers, and that you have no intention of stopping. Are you retracting this? If so, I stand corrected.

It is incorrect, so do stand corrected. I've already explained many times in this thread what I actually said which was misinterpreted by some Skeptics into what you've said. So, don't make me say it again.

This behaviour is dangerous. Calling it a personal study really does not help.

There is nothing dangerous about my investigation!

He's propped up the straw man that says that I must believe that Anita could cause harm (or has caused harm) otherwise I would not have made the site. Apparently that's a requirement in the Big Book of Stop Woo Sites.

Then, what other reasons would you have for wanting to stop me? What exactly do you want to stop, my actual perceptions that are my own right as is my right to form my own thoughts, or the carefully conducted investigation that brings no harm to anyone who takes part of it, or the mere concept of it all, of investigating seemingly correlating associative perceptions? What exactly are we stopping, as I have done nothing wrong.

I'm getting a Vision no wait it's a Feeling that TEEK will not volunteer. Unless she does.

But you will tell us eventually, which it is, won't you?

 

[Akhenaten]

So, we haven't read many comments from people concerning the actual content of UncaYimmy's new site, other than a few about the blackboard picture.

Would anyone who's actually had a lookie care to comment?

 

[logical muse]

It's 5:30am where I am, my insomnia won tonight. Why couldn't this thread be dull? It's enthralling! Now I'll never get back to sleep.

There was a comment earlier on about the stop site being an "attack on a member, and that's going too far" or something (sorry, can't find it now). I hope that's not a general principle, as then Ms Sylvia and Ms Kaz could become members and claim that 'their' stop sites are attacking members and that's going too far.

 

[Uncayimmy]

Then, what other reasons would you have for wanting to stop me?

I will once again quote my own site. The title banner reads:
Stop Vision From Feeling - A Skeptical Inquiry

The opening paragraph reads:

Some of us believe she is delusional while others believe she is a deliberate fraud. Still others think she is simply misguided and naive (you can register your opinion below). Regardless, her extraordinary claims should be addressed by critical thinkers. Far too many people like Anita Ikonen (VisionFromFeeling) are allowed to spew their half-baked ideas unchecked. This site will serve to examine her claims with the impartial light of science.

Do you wanna get hung up on the "stop" part of the domain name? I needed a domain name with your domain name contained within. This will help keep my site near yours in the search rankings. The "stop" part is certainly an attention getter and likely to garner traffic from anyone researching you. Had I used another domain name, the site would still have the same content, so I suggest you not get all fussed about the word "stop."

 

[eirik]

But why are you saying that I am dangerous? I've shown you why your accusation against me is also unfounded.
It is incorrect, so do stand corrected. I've already explained many times in this thread what I actually said which was misinterpreted by some Skeptics into what you've said. So, don't make me say it again.

Ok. Fair enough. Answer this very easy question, so that misconceptions are avoided:

Are you saying that you will not ever use your superpowers to diagnose people, including friends and family, unless you have the superpowers scientifically proven? (To do this you must diagnose in tests and so on, which off course will be OK)

If the answer is no, I will gladly admit that you are not dangerous. The premise for this is that you don't call everything an "investigation" or a "study".

 

[Rairun]

Wow! Anita wrote seven paragraphs all starting with "I" - who woulda thunk it? While your promotional material is off-topic for this thread, your post underscores why I am creating the site. You write walls and walls of text - literally tens of thousands of words. You repeat the same discredited statements. At times you are downright deceptive, especially when you ask questions of skeptics knowing full well we have answered them repeatedly.

What's needed is a place where we can examine your claims critically without you taking over the thread with endless repetitions of discredited points, which you have again done in this thread.

I only read a small part of the other threads, and I haven't really read this whole thread either. But I have to agree with her here--how is that one particular post of hers "discredited"? Her "claims" here are no different from a person who claims to have had hallucinations, i.e. they are not claims at all. You could doubt that they are really hallucinating, or that she is having weird visual, olfactory and taste experiences, but what's the point? I suppose a brain scan would show us the truth, but it sounds pretty mundane to me.

My point is that she didn't actually claim there is a correspondence between her experiences and reality, at least not in the post you quoted. The way you dismiss it makes me question whether you misread everything she's said in the other threads (which I can't be bothered to read).

 

[Senex]

It's surprising to me how few of you agree with tkingdoll that VFF hasn't approached the position a "Stop..." site requires. VFF steals no money nor tricks people to believe they were healed. She believes she has abilities but I don't see how she ever exploited anyone.

UncaYimmy, you wish to model a site on Robert Lancaster's Stop Sylvia Browne website but you missed all the details. Sylvia had her own religion that tricked people. Sylvia took money from people. Sylvia qualified as being evil. Robert stuck to facts. Robert knew how to put his point across without leaving himself open to lawsuits. You need to talk to Robert when he recovers before following in his footsteps.

VFF may be a woo but she is our woo. Let's not judge until I take her on the East coast haunted motels tour (Oh, I'm only kidding, I have no hidden agenda for sticking up for her )

 

[Uncayimmy]

The way you dismiss it makes me question whether you misread everything she's said in the other threads (which I can't be bothered to read).

If you can't be bothered to read the other threads, then why should I spend my time right now to give you the Cliff Notes version? It's like you overheard a snippet of a conversation between a couple of people discussing "Moby Dick" and concluded that the guy "just happens to like fish, that's all."

If you question my interpretation, go read things for yourself. Better still, volunteer to help out on the site. Go read the thousands of posts and come back with your interpretations.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

VFF may be a woo but she is our woo.

 

[Uncayimmy]

It's surprising to me how few of you agree with tkingdoll that VFF hasn't approached the position a "Stop..." site requires. VFF steals no money nor tricks people to believe they were healed. She believes she has abilities but I don't see how she ever exploited anyone.

Has anyone made any such claim? Or are you operating under the assumption that those things must happen before a website is created to debunk paranormal claims?

UncaYimmy, you wish to model a site on Robert Lancaster's Stop Sylvia Browne website but you missed all the details. Sylvia had her own religion that tricked people. Sylvia took money from people. Sylvia qualified as being evil. Robert stuck to facts. Robert knew how to put his point across without leaving himself open to lawsuits. You need to talk to Robert when he recovers before following in his footsteps.

I am not "following in his footsteps" other than adopting the use of the word STOP in the domain name. To point out that Sylvia has done things that Anita has not is irrelevant. Nobody has argued that they have done the same things. Some believe that Anita is setting herself up to make such a run, but nobody has claimed that is what she is currently doing.

For various reasons the JREF forums are no longer adequate for addressing her claims. Truth be told the discussion format in general is no longer adequate because any continuity is broken by her Walls o' Text and ceaseless repetition. This leads to bickering because people are frustrated seeing the same debunked points being made for the 20th time.

 

[eirik]

Seems like you're losing your cool, which is a shame.
Maybe it's the frustration of realising that no matter how much you twist and squirm in argumentation, the bottom line is that unless you can produce some (any) evidence then you have no case whatsoever.
That would explain why you keep studiously avoiding the matter.

You ask for Evidence?

Did you not see it? I can't possibly post it again. 5th time makes spam. You would do well to criticise the validity of the evidence I have already presented. This is what VfF to some success has done.

Jokes aside, if VfF states that she will not use her diagnostic superpowers on others again, I actually agree that she is not dangerous. But that would take a clear and unambiguous statement, given her history here. YWe are not there yet. If this happens, I will agree that VfF is not dangerous.

The site of UncaJimmy is still something I support, as with all well mannered critisicm on woo-ideas. Everybody is entitled to their own understanding and perception of the world, but that is not a right to not be criticized.

Eirik

 

[Rairun]

If you can't be bothered to read the other threads, then why should I spend my time right now to give you the Cliff Notes version? It's like you overheard a snippet of a conversation between a couple of people discussing "Moby Dick" and concluded that the guy "just happens to like fish, that's all."

If you question my interpretation, go read things for yourself. Better still, volunteer to help out on the site. Go read the thousands of posts and come back with your interpretations.

It still doesn't change the fact that you misread the post you quoted. Granted, perhaps you've lost your patience because she was inconsistent on the other threads, but if you are going to create a stopvisionfromfeeling.com, you should address every single point rationally.

Anyway, you have the right to create this site. No one is going to stop you. But I also have the right to think it's kind of lame. I mean, I haven't created a stopmymom.com website, even though my mother claims to perceive vibrations and have out-of-body experiences. It sounds like she annoyed you on an Internet forum, so you chose to go on a personal crusade to show everyone that she's full of ****. That's all. Your site isn't some sort of public service to help people who are being taken advantage of. She's not Sylvia Browne. She's not exploiting anyone.

 

[dbalsdon]

If you can't be bothered to read the other threads, then why should I spend my time right now to give you the Cliff Notes version? It's like you overheard a snippet of a conversation between a couple of people discussing "Moby Dick" and concluded that the guy "just happens to like fish, that's all."

If you question my interpretation, go read things for yourself. Better still, volunteer to help out on the site. Go read the thousands of posts and come back with your interpretations.

Thats the best thing about Roberts sites. No interpretation needed. A nice simple:

1. Sylvia/Kaz's claim
2. Heres the evidence for/against the claim being correct.
3. Goto 1

Not:

1. I think Sylvia/Kaz are frauds/wrong.
2. So do some other people.
3. Go look at the JREF forum to come up with your own conclusion
4. The end.

 

[Senex]

Has anyone made any such claim? Or are you operating under the assumption that those things must happen before a website is created to debunk paranormal claims?

I don't see why cheating someone wouldn't be a reasonable standard before starting a "Stop..." site.

I am not "following in his footsteps" other than adopting the use of the word STOP in the domain name. To point out that Sylvia has done things that Anita has not is irrelevant. Nobody has argued that they have done the same things. Some believe that Anita is setting herself up to make such a run, but nobody has claimed that is what she is currently doing.

No one knows what Anita is doing except visiting some silly Navy ship instead of more worthwhile motel visitations.

For various reasons the JREF forums are no longer adequate for addressing her claims. Truth be told the discussion format in general is no longer adequate because any continuity is broken by her Walls o' Text and ceaseless repetition.

Yes, and some of us are flirting.

This leads to bickering because people are frustrated seeing the same debunked points being made for the 20th time.

Holy Smokes -- take a deep breath/now exhale. Repeat. Doesn't that help put what is important in perspective? How does this affect you? I just helped a friend of mine move and he was frustrated for good reason. I know legitimate reasons why people can be frustrated.

Not sure. Is that a trick question?Is it arameic or atlantian?

It's Swedish. Didn't those rascals leave their language after they left you their fine culture

 

[Uncayimmy]

It still doesn't change the fact that you misread the post you quoted.

In the post I quoted I snipped everything but the first word in each paragraph ("I"). I did not address any of her points directly. I held it up as an example of how Anita floods threads with self-indulgent Walls o' Text and repetition. Since you have not read anything else, you cannot comment on whether what she wrote was repetitious.

So, really, I don't know how you can say I "misread" her post since I wasn't directly addressing the content. She could have said, "Anybody who wants to know about my claims can visit my website. It's all there." But she didn't, did she? That's what I was driving at.

Anyway, you have the right to create this site. No one is going to stop you. But I also have the right to think it's kind of lame. I mean, I haven't created a stopmymom.com website, even though my mother claims to perceive vibrations and have out-of-body experiences. It sounds like she annoyed you on an Internet forum, so you chose to go on a personal crusade to show everyone that she's full of ****. That's all. Your site isn't some sort of public service to help people who are being taken advantage of. She's not Sylvia Browne. She's not exploiting anyone.

It sounds to me like you're taking after your mother in that you are making claims without a foundation in fact. Why don't you go read the thousands of posts in the VFF threads before you comment on my motivations? It's the courteous thing to do.

 

[Moochie]

Those of us that inhabit this dull and boring world (some call it reality) would still like to see some of that dull and boring evidence.

If you had produced that UY's site and this thread would have never come to pass.

My thoughts as well. VfF, I don't know where you get the "dull and boring" from, as it's never been that to me.

Living in the meat and potatoes world as I do, I'm not about to validate your "perceptions" as "paranormal" or anything else for that matter. I (and perhaps some others here) need to see some evidence of this "perception" of yours. Many have made innumerable suggestions for ways of producing some evidence that you possess any ability that could be considered out of the ordinary and you've managed to sidestep them all.

Here's a clue if you mean what you say above: cease posting here until such a time as you have incontrovertible proof of what you claim. I doubt if anyone here is even remotely interested in "helping" you anymore, given your record here, so you'll need to find others to do that.

In short, you have almost zero credibility as far as I (and perhaps some others here) are concerned. Quit blowing smoke and bring forth something that's recognizably real. At the moment, the only difference between you and "The Professor" is that you are much more verbose.


M.