Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[Simon39759]

There is a logical reason for punishment, and that is deterrence of crime, however, it arguably has a muted affect on people who don't plan on being caught, and furthermore a finite amount of punishment should always be enough. The reason you want "severe punishment," is for emotional reasons, you want really evil people to suffer because emotionally it makes you feel better.

It is also worth noting that the threat of punishment does nothing against people that believe they are following the law.

In the particular case of supernatural punishment, it does nothing for people that, like Hitler indicated he did, believe they are doing God's will.

 

[joobz]

If someone goes through life, without ever hearing about Jesus and his message than I believe a just God will be just.

You certainly don't know your bible very well.

The parable of the slaves:

The lord [owner] of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

It's clear that Jesus is saying that "not knowing" of him doesn't excuse the punishment for not worshipping him. The only thing he says is that those will simply not suffer as badly as those who willingly reject him.

 

[DOC]

I'm not complaining about it. You had accused Pax of resorting to emotional appeals and simply called you out on the fact that you too were using an emotional appeal.

Like I said, why use that as an example and not other examples of attrocities? (e.g., crusades, inquisition, genocide in south america by spanish invaders...)

Because I was talking about how something was kept secret. The examples you mention have nothing to do with secrecy

 

[joobz]

Because I was talking about how something was kept secret. The examples you mention have nothing to do with secrecy

But it wasn't kept secret in the holocaust either. Why are you having a hard time with this???

 

[DOC]

It's clear that Jesus is saying that "not knowing" of him doesn't excuse the punishment for not worshipping him. The only thing he says is that those will simply not suffer as badly as those who willingly reject him.

Where does it say doesn't excuse the punishment of not worshiping him?

 

[Hokulele]

Jesus said in John 14:6

I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If someone goes through life, without ever hearing about Jesus and his message than I believe a just God will be just. For those who reject Christ and the message well according to Christ you will be damned.

Right. So then this statement is true, as it would be extremely unlikely that European Jews to have never heard of Christianity and what it entailed:

Even worse, according to DOC's version of Christianity, the Jews slaughtered in Hitler's concentration camps are currently in hell, whereas the sincerely remorseful Christian Nazi's are in heaven.

And then this is just disingenuous bluster:

Which post do you get this from? It sounds like you just made it up?

 

[DOC]

But it wasn't kept secret in the holocaust either. Why are you having a hard time with this???

So the 6 million who were reported to die knew they were going to die by going where the Nazi were taking them and still went? That doesn't make sense.

 

[Elizabeth I]

Jesus said in John 14:6

I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If someone goes through life, without ever hearing about Jesus and his message than I believe a just God will be just. For those who reject Christ and the message well according to Christ you will be damned.

So your God breaks his promises? I seem to remember something about an "everlasting covenant" with Abraham and a commitment that the Jews would always be God's people.

But God's son came for a visit so now God, the giver of all that is just and honorable, gets to take back that "everlasting covenant"?

 

[Simon39759]

Actually, according to the quote, both will be damned.

So Gandhi and the Jews go to hell, but Hitler might still make it to Heaven...
As they say, Heaven for the comfort, hell for the company...

 

[joobz]

So the 6 million who were reported to die knew they were going to die by going where the Nazi were taking them and still went? That doesn't make sense.

are you saying that the jews were willingly rounded up?!?

Please tell me you are a bit more aware of history and reality than that.

 

[Elizabeth I]

So the 6 million who were reported to die knew they were going to die by going where the Nazi were taking them and still went? That doesn't make sense.

Did you study any history at all? Do you know about the Nazi war machine? Do you know that people were hauled off at gunpoint?

What color is the sky in the world where you live?

 

[Simon39759]

Did you study any history at all? Do you know about the Nazi war machine? Do you know that people were hauled off at gunpoint?
What color is the sky in the world where you live?

Whatever colour is convenient for his argument at that time.

 

[DOC]

Jesus said in John 14:6

I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If someone goes through life, without ever hearing about Jesus and his message than I believe a just God will be just. For those who reject Christ and the message well according to Christ you will be damned.

Right. So then this statement is true, as it would be extremely unlikely that European Jews to have never heard of Christianity and what it entailed:

Even worse, according to DOC's version of Christianity, the Jews slaughtered in Hitler's concentration camps are currently in hell, whereas the sincerely remorseful Christian Nazi's are in heaven.

This doesn't make sense because if it was extremely unlikely that the Jews ever heard what Christianity entailed as you state then my statement above says God will be just and the Jews are not going to go to be damned if they never heard the message. Only when you've heard the message and still don't believe will you be damned according to Christ.
So your statement was half true and half false.

nd then this is just disingenuous bluster:

DOC quote: Which post do you get this from? It sounds like you just made it up?

-----

So I'm still asking what post you got it from. If you made a mistake then admit to it. Otherwise you made up the part about the Jews going to hell.

 

[Hokulele]

This doesn't make sense because if it was extremely unlikely that the Jews ever heard what Christianity entailed as you state then my statement above says God will be just and the Jews are not going to go to be damned if they never heard the message. Only when you've heard the message and still don't believe will you be damned according to Christ.
So your statement was half true and half false.

Re-read my statement, as you have gotten the assumption completely backwards.

So I'm still asking what post you got it from. If you made a mistake then admit to it. Otherwise you made up the part about the Jews going to hell.

Why? You have already admitted that if a Jew has heard of Jesus and doesn't accept him as a savior, that Jew is going to hell. I never said that you stated it directly, but that according to your version of Christianity, that is the logical conclusion

Therefor, my original statement is correct and now you are simply blathering.

 

[DOC]

So your God breaks his promises? I seem to remember something about an "everlasting covenant" with Abraham and a commitment that the Jews would always be God's people.

So a Jew can murder 20 people and will still be going to heaven because the person was born a Jew?

And what verse are you talking about.

 

[DOC]

Re-read my statement, as you have gotten the assumption completely backwards.

Post 2813 shows half of what you said was not what I said because you said the Jews did not know of the message. You will not own up to and I'll leave it at that.

Why? You have already admitted that if a Jew has heard of Jesus and doesn't accept him as a savior, that Jew is going to hell. I never said that you stated it directly, but that according to your version of Christianity, that is the logical conclusion.

According to Christ, anyone (not only Jews) who hears the message and does not believe will be damned.

 

[joobz]

This doesn't make sense because if it was extremely unlikely that the Jews ever heard what Christianity entailed as you state then my statement above says God will be just and the Jews are not going to go to be damned if they never heard the message.

According to the bible this is completely false.

 

[joobz]

According to Christ, anyone (not only Jews) who hears the message and does not believe will be damned.

according to christ, even those who didn't know of him are damned.

 

[Hokulele]

Post 2813 shows half of what you said was not what I said because you said the Jews did not know of the message. You will not own up to and I'll leave it at that.

Are you completely incapable of reading comprehension?

My original quote was:

Right. So then this statement is true, as it would be extremely unlikely that European Jews to have never heard of Christianity and what it entailed:

What exactly do you think the word "never" means?

 

[DOC]

Are you completely incapable of reading comprehension?

My original quote was:




What exactly do you think the word "never" means?

Well when I read it the first time, I did not see the word "never" in the sentence. Now when I read it, it is there. So will leave it at that. You will also notice that the grammar is bad in the sentence.