The PG Film - Bob Heironimus and Patty

[SweatyYeti]

Vortigern wrote:

And BTW, when I said I'd move the lines "a few millimeters" I was referring to the dimensions of the pic, not a full-size figure.

Yeah, I realized that on my way to work this morning.

It was very late last night when I was writing my reply...it was a little mental error.

But, nonetheless...I don't think that the lines I drew really need an adjustment by any more than an insignificant amount, one way or the other.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Vortigern wrote:

For some reason, the "Lurch" pic now appears to be smaller than the "Ruk" pic, when on my Paint software this was reversed.

I think that's because on the Lurch image, you still have the white border, or 'canvas', around the image.

I cropped the image out of the border, to show you what I mean...

I'll respond to the important part of your post later today.

 

[GT/CS]

Here's a post from a newbie named Dennieb at the BFF.

My belief in the PG film came about recently. It had nothing to do with the consideration of how close someone can try to duplicate the creature on film but many other details that I have picked up from reading.

1. The film overlaps by John Green show a creature of 7'3.5". That takes a special suit with more technology than BH showed.

2. The tracks (foot placements matched to the film) indicate a creature over 500 lbs, more likely over 700 lb. That takes more strength than BH or anyone else can muster and be fluid, let alone walk.

3. I read from Jeff Melgrum that early in the film the creature gracefully steps up a gravel bar of 3' in one step. I want to see BH do that gracefully by himself, let along with even 1/3 of the weight on his back.

4. I want to see the feet of his costume and match it to the prints that were taken. I understand nobody asked him for this.

5. The film showed the creature walking for around 300 feet. Early strides (tracks) were in the 42" range and later picked up to 65-72" as she walked away. I want to see someone do this with 500 lb. strapped to their backs. It is reported that P & G later followed the tracks for 1/4 mile. Maybe our test should include this.

6. Bob Titmus reported that when he tracked them further they turned sharply and went up a fairly steep hill. I want to see someone do this also.

7. As the creature was walking away much more could be seen of her width. I want to see a fake suit that incorporates this width and incorporates the natural shoulder/armpit width and movement that Pattie shows.

It would be great if the one that has a chance for some input into the TV show could include this kind of testing and see who in the audience believes BH or anyone else could do it. Pattie not only does it, she does it the first try without fail, does it for 300 ft. without getting sloppy or tired.

It is also to be considered that this ground was not totally even and had debris to be negotiated as well. All these things have brought about my acceptance of an actual creature just as much as the creature itself.

So take that you non-believing skeptics! Someone finally proved Patty is real!!!

 

[SweatyYeti]

DennieB wrote...

7. As the creature was walking away much more could be seen of her WIDTH.
I want to see a fake suit that incorporates this width and incorporates the natural shoulder/armpit width and movement that Pattie shows.

Great observation!

 

[xblade]

An image showing Patty's extreme chest-width can be seen in post #888.

I"ll take that as a no then, as whatever that is in post #888 is in no way similar to the 2 pics of Ted.

 

[RayG]

Say, Sweaty, you got a precise measurement for the shoulder width of Patty? (in inches please)

RayG

 

[GT/CS]

DennieB wrote...




Great observation!

I thought you'd like that one, as well as a few of the others. If he posts any more gems I think you may appreciate I'll be sure to bring them over for you.

 

[kitakaze]

I would ask you once more to state your precise objection to the skeletal overlays. I cannot rake through 20+ pages of a thread looking for a single post which addresses this question. It's not simply a time issue, it's that I very probably would not be able to find the post to which you've referred me. Can you please just take two or three minutes and write a short paragraph explaining how the Poser 7 figure with human skeletal proportions is in any way an unsatisfactory match to the P-G figure?

Thanks in advance.

I'll respond to the rest of your post later today.....I promise!

*sigh*

Promises, promises. Yeah, so um... anyway, as noted in post #886, when Sweaty says "tomorrow", it almost certainly means "never" but what I would like to know is what specific length of time in our reality equals "later today" in Sweaty World. I know it is at least a number of days but suspect it might also equal never. Any chance we can get a look at your Salvador Dali clock, Sweaty?

 

[kitakaze]

Yes, Dfoot's "upper body dimensions" are expanded by his padded suit...........BUT.........as far as the dimension of his chest width is concerned, I can't tell whether it has been expanded by anything more than an inch, because of the angle that he's being viewed from...

[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Dfoot/DfootSuit4.jpg[/qimg]


We would need to see him from directly behind to get an accurate measurement of his 'padded chest width'.

Ya-hah... Right, then. Hey, just a thought...

1) The image of Dfoot was not the only referenced imagery. Why do you refer to only that?

2) Why are you talking about chests, again? You post #888 does not feature a look at Patty's chest so... huh?

3) Post #888 never proved a siginificant width for Patty.

 

[kitakaze]

Just like I said before.....the "Great Kaze"....tells the Footers where, when, and why they should post.

He tells Footers who they should ask questions of, and exactly what they should ask.

The Great Kaze would like you to post a response to Vort's questions regarding the magical skeleton in this thread hopefully within the next couple days (in our reality). Why? Because it would really be important to him if you actually could prove the discrepancies you claimed and that mangler intentionally manufactured a hoax to make BH appear to be of the same height and limb measurements as Patty. Such evidence should absolutely be discarded if you are correct in your accusation.

Let's trot them out again...

Listen buddy......Crow has a right to her own opinions, and thoughts.

I am shocked. Who is responsible for this development?

Forgive me. I just think it funny to see log poo-poo your cherished Bigfoot beliefs and you giving her unique form of skepticism a pass.

Log thinks Joyce's tale is mythology at work? Neato.

 

[Vortigern99]

For the record, in the PGF2 thread I did find Mangler's initial post of the Poser7 overlays, his explanation of them, Crowlogic's (though not SweatyYeti's) objection to them, and Mangler's reply, as summed up in the following copy-n-paste job:

Off the rack Poser7 model. Same model three time zones.
…

The creature is crouched down the only true reference points are the ankle and knee, and the ankle is questionable.

Patty’s proportions are not known, BH’s proportions are known. One must start with known facts if they are ever to make sense of this. Therefore the scale is based on a known number. The skeleton is a Poser7 6’ model (off the rack), it’s a close match to the model in Meldrums Book as well as BH. I swapped out the BH photo and inserted the Patty photo from my archives there was no scaling involved, the Photo is as it should be not as you would like it to be. Pat’s knee joint is bent as well as his hip, mid-spine and neck, just because you believe something is not right doesn’t make it so.

In the future I would prefer you not manipulate my work. Maybe you should start from scratch like myself and others have and create an original argument. The bottom line is that this creature is well within a human’s IM regardless of anyone’s fancy footwork.

I couldn't help but notice that you scaled down Patty to make the reference points line up.

Again the scale is based on what is known, not the unknown.

There is a clue for you in this condensed version. First, find the fullest/cleanest framed version of the creature from head to foot (I would suggest around frame 305, make sure the aspect ratio hasn’t been screwed with, what would that aspect ratio be crow?) then scale your 6’ model to it (make sure it’s set to the same distance as they say the images were shot at, what distance would that be again crow?). Work your way back up to a manageable scale. Then find yourself someone with a good copy of the Noll/Davis film, don’t expose it to the public until you have cash in hand (again make sure the aspect ratio hasn’t been screwed with) tear it apart starting from the beginning, if your lucky you may find it already in individual frames (90-100 frames should be enough for a good working model). Transfer the data from the full frame to the working copy (hey look it the 6’ model fits really good, it walks good from all angles, none of that rotating knee BS), feel free to venture out and see what else it fits into. Maybe it fits into Meldrums work, maybe it fit’s BH, it sure seems to fit the creature, what else is there (waiting on Mr. Munns), about the only time it doesn’t fly is when crow or sweaty get their color crayons out, go figure.

Logic, your line of thought is skewed and your argument is flat. This whole exercise was to simply prove that the subject matters IM is consistant with that of modern man, that’s all. The bonus is the data also seems to imply that if it's a man in a suit he is around 6’ tall, walks at times with a somewhat compliant gait and for the most part is striding out, all consistant with a man struggling to keep his pose. It doesn’t prove that it is BH, it doesn't prove that it isn’t bigfoot, it doesn’t prove that there are no bigfoot but it does strongly indicate that it could be a man in a suit.

So, in closing, if anyone can offer a reasoned and logical rebuttal to Mangler's overlays, I certainly would like to read it, because as it currently stands the Poser7 6-foot skeletal model effectively incinerates any argument that the P-G figure has non-human proportions.

 

[SweatyYeti]

Vortigern wrote:

So, in closing, if anyone can offer a reasoned and logical rebuttal to Mangler's overlays, I certainly would like to read it, because as it currently stands the Poser7 6-foot skeletal model effectively incinerates any argument that the P-G figure has non-human proportions.

There are a couple of body dimensions/proportions that Fric and Frac don't even address...so, therefore, they wouldn't have the 'final word' on whether or not all of Patty's body dimensions/proportions are within 'human dimensions'.


Here is one of those 'body dimensions' I'm refering to...Patty's forward-projecting head...

As for the overlays that are in question.....it's 'standard operating procedure' for any type of scientific analysis to be able to be duplicated, as a test of it's legitimacy.
That's why I asked which program Fric and Frac belong to....so that mangler's work can simply be tested...and either verified, or falsified.

 

[SweatyYeti]

kitakaze wrote:

Promises, promises. Yeah, so um... anyway, as noted in post #886, when Sweaty says "tomorrow", it almost certainly means "never" but what I would like to know is what specific length of time in our reality equals "later today" in Sweaty World. I know it is at least a number of days but suspect it might also equal never. Any chance we can get a look at your Salvador Dali clock, Sweaty?

Last night I was busy, dealing with an upcoming move.
I'm moving to a new residence....and, in addition, moving my part-time business, too.

I respond to what I can, when I have the time to do so.

You are an obnoxious human being, kitty.


Because of your continuous garbage, I'm seriously considering not responding to a single thing that you have to say.

 

[kitakaze]

There are a couple of body dimensions/proportions that Fric and Frac don't even address...so, therefore, they wouldn't have the 'final word' on whether or not all of Patty's body dimensions/proportions are within 'human dimensions'.

Yes, yes. You said Patty's arms are inhumanly long. I asked you how many humans were in your sample base before you made that declaration abd in pristine Sweaty fashion you said "enough humans... for my liking." This is the quality of your analysis. I knew it would likely be on or two humans from flawed comparisons (Heironimus and MacLarin). Just another insincere sidestep from Desperado. You accused mangler of trying to hoax us. Where's the evidence?

Here is one of those 'body dimensions' I'm refering to...Patty's forward-projecting head...


[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Patty/HumanSkeleton3.jpg[/qimg][qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/Patty/PattyVR2.jpg[/qimg]

Typical Sweaty maneuver. Take a crap still from the crap grossly overpaid pseudo-science LMS creation of "Patty's skeleton" that he thinks emphasizes his point.

Hmmm... which image should I use?

Andy Capp?

Conehead?

Fits fine here:

As for the overlays that are in question.....it's 'standard operating procedure' for any type of scientific analysis to be able to be duplicated, as a test of it's legitimacy.
That's why I asked which program Fric and Frac belong to....so that mangler's work can simply be tested...and either verified, or falsified.

Yes, mangler gave you that information when you and log first accused him of hoaxing us. That was quite a while ago. Why didn't you try for duplication back then?

 

[kitakaze]

Last night I was busy, dealing with an upcoming move.
I'm moving to a new residence....and, in addition, moving my part-time business, too.

I respond to what I can, when I have the time to do so.

Nobody is arguing you can't respond to what you want, when you want to. Maybe if you have a legitimate excuse such as moving, you shouldn't be making promises you can't keep. Seems fair, doesn't it?

I hope your new residence will be better than the last and hopefully have better Bigfoot access.

You are an obnoxious human being, kitty.

It's the gases emanating from this sewer of a board, possibly? I accept you think I am obnoxious, Sweaty. I make a point of illustrating what I and many others see as your intellectual dishonesty and cowardice. Maybe that sounds rough but I see it in play all the time. But let's talk about obnoxiousness. You threatened to not answer one of my questions for a month or two because of perceived disrespect. The irony that flew way over your head is that you behaved like a complete obnoxious dink to a couple of people other than myself who were not being disrespectful to you at all. By your very own logic they would have been completely justified in writing you off as well. How come it's OK when you do it but not for others?

Because of your continuous garbage, I'm seriously considering not responding to a single thing that you have to say.

Such threats have no effect on me, Sweaty. You haven't been providing sincere and meaningful answers to very relevant questions I've been asking for a very long time now. I am well accustomed to this. I don't really even ask questions expecting any kind of attempt at a real answer from you. I just make a point of outlining the hypocrisy of you trying to flip things and say that skeptics won't answer you by asking questions I know will make you clam up and run away. Do whatever you feel you need to. The ignore feature is always there for you. I will continue to address your flawed arguments and should there ever be a valid point, acknowledge it.

 

[Aepervius]

Using the same logic as sweati : The skeleton of sweat don't pass to the figure in the film "figure"...

 

[SweatyYeti]

kitakaze wrote:

Maybe if you have a legitimate excuse such as moving,

That phrase (legitimate excuse) makes no sense.

'Reasons' are reasonable....but 'Excuses' are inexcusable.

....you shouldn't be making promises you can't keep. Seems fair, doesn't it?

I say what I intend to do.

Maybe you should realize that you talk, constantly, out of your a__.

 

[LTC8K6]

skeletal model effectively incinerates any argument that the P-G figure has non-human proportions.

Well, if you go back and read early reviews of the PGF by qualified scientists, you find them saying Patty looks human, has human proportions, and walks like a human.

Manifestly human, in the words of one of the most qualified to say.

 

[SweatyYeti]

kitakaze wrote:

Hmmm... which image should I use?

This image shows pretty nicely how Patty's head projects well forward of her backside/arm...

 

[SweatyYeti]

Here is an image of a skeleton drawn inside of Patty's outlines, by 'bigjimm' (I believe), a member of the Mid-Am. board...supporting Vision Realm's version of Patty's apparent skeleton...at least as far as the forward-projecting neck/head...

In contrast....here is Dfoot's lame attempt at re-creating Patty.

This view shows the much more modern-human (fully-upright) looking vertical neck...